[New-imc] PROPOSAL NEW MAILING LIST imc-ps-process VERSION 1.0 (fwd)

[sing and dance]

for those who can make it, http://irc.indymedia.org in channel #palestine wed, april 12 at 8 PM palestine time (GMT + 3, EST+7)

<the following is a response to boud's email, below>

of course the killings this weekend were covered on IMEMC and PNN...
Israel kills 15 Palestinians over weekend; cuts all ties with Palestinian Authority:
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17936/1/
Six Palestinians killed, 4 injured in a new Israeli Strike in Gaza Strip
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17926/1/
Troops shell northern Gaza, Palestinian child killed, fifteen residents injured
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17964/1/
Palestinian President: Israeli escalation negates talks of justice
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17963/1/
Army special forces assassinate a Palestinian fighter east of Bethlehem
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17933/1/
Father, his child, and four other residents killed in an Israeli air-strike in Rafah
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17893/1/
Under-cover forces of the Israeli army kill one resident of Nablus, wound three
http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17886/1/
<leaving arabic links from pnn out>

along with the settler takeovers in east jerusalem, attacks in hebron, prisoners hunger strike, anniversary of deir yassin massacre, and twenty other events over the weekend -- my point is, THIS is what imemc and PNN DO....day and night....is report this stuff.........

fyi - the 'closed content' idea was considered at one time.....it should have been taken off the 'about' section of the IMEMC site....thx for pointing it out.....

proposal for a global feature on the weekend's killings has been made to www-features - thanks for suggesting it.

perhaps a consensus on list/list admin/list type/etc can be made at irc meeting tomorrow......

thx
jenka

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:24:40 +0200 (CEST)
boud <boud at riseup.net> wrote:

> hi jenka, new-imc,
> 
> [i don't wish to spam this to a long cc list of people who may not
> wish to be involved in this discussion. Please feel welcome to forward
> it to those interested.]
> 
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, sing and dance wrote:
> 
> NEWSWIRE/FEATURES -> suggest thread on IMEMC/PNN, www-features
> 
> > fifteen people were killed in gaza this weekend....THIS should be
> > the priority.....  not arguing over who runs the list.
> 
> The IMEMC and PNN already exist, and we were told that the IMEMC has
> accepted nearly all articles submitted to it (except for zionist diatribes),
> so please publish this information on IMEMC. Anyone is also welcome to
> propose global features to www-features, even without a locally approved
> IMC, though of course, the more collective and grassroots the groups are, 
> the more chance they have of having an article accepted - i'm sure some
> occasional IMEMC/PNN global features would be accepted even while there
> is no official Palestine IMC. See 
> https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/How-toProposeAndPostAFeature
> 
> 
> IMC-PS-PROCESS list PROPOSAL:
> 
> > but i was disturbed by the email from boud, and felt i had to respond briefly
> >
> > boud says:
> > <snip! -- full email below>
> > "> - but it *may* require some "process" thinking and reading (in English) and it
> >> *may*
> >> be important for preventing any exclusionary processes
> >> from occurring."
> >
> 
> > seems to me that the proposal is already exclusionary, as it doesn't
> > include any of the people who made the original proposal (and i don't
> > mean me....there are plenty to choose from).
> 
> So please propose some people from that proposal (or they can propose 
> themselves) who are *not* in "leadership" roles in their organisations.
> george signs his emails as Director of the IMEMC - surely you can understand
> that this is a concern: non-hierarchy is a fundamental part of indymedia.
> (This is *not* a criticism against george's work or commitment - AFAIK
> he is a highly committed, dedicated alternative media activist.)
> 
> old IMC-PALESTINE list -> suggest thread on imc-ps-process (once created)
> 
> > and btw, the imc-palestine list is dead.  and has been dead since
> > early 2003.  after repeatedly attempting to contact the four people
> > listed as administrators (three of whom have email addresses that
> > are dead), and attempting multiple times to join the list, i did
> > manage to join for a short while in february.  long enough to look
> > over the archives and confirm that the list has been totally dead
> > since early 2003.  but it appears my membership on the list was then
> > cancelled, as i am no longer a member of the list.
> 
> i suggest this as a thread on imc-ps-process (once created). Have a full
> and open discussion, and then make a request to listwork if you (collective
> you) think it's a priority to close the old list.
> 
> IMC-PS-PROCESS list PROPOSAL:
> 
> > anyway if this is indeed an attempt to exclude the original
> > proposers (and not just an oversight), i find that disturbing.
> > again, I'd like to reiterate my proposal for an online meeting to
> > address these and other issues.
> 
> So far, i have not seen any proposal of individuals from IMEMC/PNN 
> who would be likely to be mutually acceptable as list admins for
> imc-ps-process.
> 
> The "About" page on IMEMC suggests that IMEMC people plan to have 
> closed reading, rather than open reading - if an IMEMC person volunteers
> as a co-admin for imc-ps-process, it would be good that s/he stays
> his/her policy on open vs closed reading:
> 
> http://www.imemc.org/content/view/8182/62/
> : IMEMC archive will only be available for registered IMEMC users soon,
> : and later, some of the feature stories and analysis will be only for
> : registered users.
> 
> 
> NEW-IMC process:
> 
> > my last email detailed what-time and how-to
> >
> > boud said:
> > "After petros' request and seeing that there are still communication
> > problems, i guess i'm back until (at least) an imc-palestine-new mailing
> > list is created - and then i guess most of the discussion will go to
> > that list and by the time they get back to new-imc, the locals and
> > the regionals will hopefully have themselves organised in a way reasonably
> > likely to be accepted by the network."
> 
> > I have nothing against boud's offer to help in this regard, but
> > would also like to present that i did volunteer to be a liaison with
> > new-imc , and am myself eminently familiar with indymedia process
> 
> Sure, but there seemed to be some confusion in the process. You talked
> about creating the imc-palestine list, when the list already exists.
> i'm sure you know the local situation and the people better than i do.
> 
> My intention is only to help when i see there is a confusion and the
> process needs help to have a chance of getting to consensus...
> 
> 
> > anyway, the most preferable is of course face-to-face
> > meeting......which is difficult due to israeli closures, so we go to
> > the next best thing - irc meeting.
> 
> i've nothing against this. i would suggest a prior agreement that the
> meeting be public, and that some people log it and publish it later,
> but that's just my suggestion.
> 
> > I'd also like to reiterate my earlier statements that cc: lists can
> > be easily abused, and present a query as to why only 10 names were
> > included in boud's proposal, whereas the original list included over
> > 50.  my point is, if this is to work, and the "communication
> > problems" boud mentions are to be resolved, the solution, it seems
> > to me, is to include all voices in the dialogue.
> 
> (1) i have no idea (well, only a very rough idea) who wishes or
>      doesn't wish to be in the cc list
> 
> (2) The new-imc mailman robot normally puts messages on hold if there
> are too many cc's (to: + cc: together, i think). So i send most
> messages just to the sender and new-imc - afterwards, anyone can check
> the archive: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/
> 
> i sent a few messages with cc's to people who seemed active in responding
> to new-imc.
> 
> 
> Anyway, getting back to the list proposal.
> 
> It seems to me that jenka's concern is that it seems to exclude
> IMEMC/PNN people, and that since they are "the original proposers",
> this is unreasonable.  i'm not sure i totally follow the logic - no
> group owns any indymedia collective - and once the mailing list
> exists, people can discuss on the mailing list a new proposal for who
> admins should be, or what the list parameters should be.
> 
> OK, let's see for the next version of the proposal...
> 
> solidarity
> boud


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