[New-imc] imc-palestine: chat logs
sing and dance
jenka at indymedia.org
Wed Apr 12 18:38:27 PDT 2006
here are the chat logs from the march 27th irc meeting, and last night's meeting (april 12)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 29 20:29:36 2006
Mar 29 20:29:52 George The idea in simple words is to re-establish Indymedia Palestine with two existing websites that provide Arabic and English News reports from the ground written by Palestinians with the help of Internationals
Mar 29 20:31:58 * guest-en (~pjirc at 126.96.36.199) has joined #palestine
Mar 29 20:32:18 George techinically speaking
Mar 29 20:32:30 * guest-en is now known as fadi
Mar 29 20:32:49 George we propose that when people log on palestine.indymedia.org they go to a screen with two options, Aranic and English
Mar 29 20:33:02 George the Arabic leads to PNN and the English leads to IMEMC
Mar 29 20:33:22 George the software on both will enable people on the ground to contribute,,
Mar 29 20:33:31 George IMEMC is already equipped with this, PNN will be
Mar 29 20:34:33 George this is the basics of it.
Mar 29 20:35:00 jenka there was also a proposal to move the sites onto another server, with different software (sf-active was proposed by ryan)
Mar 29 20:35:18 henrynorr would both sites retain the basic format they have now?
Mar 29 20:35:41 George what do you mean by format exactly?
Mar 29 20:35:51 ShadiFadda hm, so all the story is about making an indymedia page with two links, one to imemc and another to pnn?
Mar 29 20:36:24 fadi As the first step could be
Mar 29 20:36:54 henrynorr Looks, content, authors - or would this mean opening them up to anybody to contribute?
Mar 29 20:37:20 * farraj has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
Mar 29 20:37:52 George content will be the same yes
Mar 29 20:38:08 George authors can grow,, looks can change as well
Mar 29 20:38:14 ShadiFadda Fadi, to me it seems to be a very slow improvement, if any
Mar 29 20:38:48 fadi why do you think it will be very slow
Mar 29 20:38:48 George Anyway, doing this means that Indymedia will be sourced by IMEMC & PNN news, who are rich sources i believe
Mar 29 20:38:57 marais mnn
Mar 29 20:39:09 George Inymedia Palesitne i mean
Mar 29 20:39:09 ShadiFadda i sometime access some news on pnn not available at imemc, and vv, this should be considered
Mar 29 20:39:26 fadi sure
Mar 29 20:39:27 George true, and it will be considered,,
Mar 29 20:39:37 marais scuse me but when we are talking about indymedia we are talking about a free publishing site
Mar 29 20:40:37 marais I don't know if this format is the right one for palestine but indyemdia is that :)
Mar 29 20:40:37 marais indymedia
Mar 29 20:42:27 jenka marais: in the email about this chat meeting, at the bottom of the email there is the full proposal for the indymedia palestine -- the idea, as is explained there, is to have users be able to contribute articles, but editors will choose from those articles submitted what to publish or not
Mar 29 20:42:28 ghassan what are the basic issues that such an arragement does not meet?
Mar 29 20:42:45 Chris Just wondering which agenda item we're on. Are we still getting an update?
Mar 29 20:42:49 marais well, if you are talking about feeding the site with news fron two other sites..where does it come the news the resaders public?
Mar 29 20:43:13 marais ahammm
Mar 29 20:43:15 George I guess accuarcy is needed here, because it is not only opinion, but also news,, and Israel-Palestine Media War needs a high level of sensitivity
Mar 29 20:43:20 jenka but those articles that are not selected for publishing on the site will still be possible to view, in a separate section ('rejected articles'), which includes an explanation as to why it was rejected
Mar 29 20:44:01 jenka chris: i think we are at: -how can IMEMC and PNN work best with the indymedia network, and other groups that want to participate
Mar 29 20:45:16 jenka marais: the contributors to the site are reporting from the ground in palestine
Mar 29 20:45:16 George can we define the role of Indymedia Palestine?? this will help us figure out the question that Ghassan posed here., what are the basic issues that such an arragement does not meet?
Mar 29 20:45:56 marais I think it's perfect to moderate the articles:)
Mar 29 20:46:10 marais it answers my question perfectly
Mar 29 20:46:16 George good
Mar 29 20:46:18 marais scuse me again for intruding
Mar 29 20:46:38 marais I never read that letter I'm here by chance
Mar 29 20:46:42 George you are not intruding
Mar 29 20:46:58 marais :)
Mar 29 20:47:05 jenka sorry, who is ender? did i miss your introduction?
Mar 29 20:47:45 ender ow, i'm sorry i'm just interested about this project
Mar 29 20:48:10 George but who are you?
Mar 29 20:49:05 George So,, no further comments?
Mar 29 20:49:17 ender just a student
Mar 29 20:49:27 jenka how about from the PNN side? fadi - chris
Mar 29 20:49:36 jenka any comments?
Mar 29 20:49:50 fadi i quess PNN and IMEMC got a very good power, by the reporters on the ground and the editors of IMEMC
Mar 29 20:49:57 henrynorr I'm a big fan of Shadi's headlines. I don't know how he feels, but I'd love to see the site also include his links (minus, I suppose, the stories originating from PNN or IMEMC).
Mar 29 20:50:14 * ender (57d2515a at localhost) has left #palestine
Mar 29 20:50:46 jenka what you think shadi?
Mar 29 20:51:09 ShadiFadda I am not sure, but guess it would fill the website with too much of daily
Mar 29 20:51:19 ShadiFadda perhaps select the main headlines...?
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Mar 29 20:52:27 ghassan could you explain why to exclude stories from pnn and imemc
Mar 29 20:52:31 jenka well, most indymedia sites have a 'newswire' along the right column, with featured stories in the middle column .....it seems like if we managed to get shadi's [great] daily summaries into the newswire, then editors could select which to feature
Mar 29 20:52:32 * farraj (~53f4564a at 184.108.40.206) has joined #palestine
Mar 29 20:52:46 George a selection will be good,, but as Henry said, they need to be filtereed because they include our stories
Mar 29 20:53:20 jenka ghassan: i think the idea is to include shadi's headlines in ADDITION to the existing ones on IMEMC and PNN
Mar 29 20:53:50 henrynorr Ghassan: I suggested excluding PNN & IMEMC stories from Shadi's headlines only because those stories will already be displayed prominently at the site.
Mar 29 20:54:11 ghassan thanx for the explanation
Mar 29 20:55:12 George Do people have concerns?
Mar 29 20:56:46 jenka is mohammed from balatacamp.net still here? it would be great to see how he thinks they may be able to contribute
Mar 29 20:56:56 henrynorr Does the plan include translating more of PNN's articles into English? And are there any thoughts about involving internationals (folks like me) in language editing?
Mar 29 20:57:44 George Henry: Yes of course,,
Mar 29 20:58:11 George your experience is really needed,,,,not only for language, but also for more professional reporting
Mar 29 20:58:35 fadi i agree with George
Mar 29 20:59:10 George PNN provides news from their rpeorters who are in the major locations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
Mar 29 20:59:21 George this means that we have a trusted source of news.
Mar 29 20:59:36 George and this also means that IMC-PAL has its own news source
Mar 29 20:59:49 fadi they are 12 now and we are going to have more soon
Mar 29 21:00:15 * Chris has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
Mar 29 21:00:22 George in addition to cntributions from the ground,,
Mar 29 21:00:59 George I believe the IMC-PAl will be a pool of news on Palestine
Mar 29 21:01:04 * Chris (~53f4541e at 220.127.116.11) has joined #palestine
Mar 29 21:01:21 fadi PNN have more than 40 stories daily
Mar 29 21:01:43 fadi with more than 100 news flash
Mar 29 21:01:54 Chris I can help with coordinating the translation of articles from Bethelhem
Mar 29 21:02:12 fadi thats also needed chris
Mar 29 21:02:13 Chris Bethlehem
Mar 29 21:02:16 George the 40 stories cover many things in Palestine, including sports
Mar 29 21:02:38 George this will also give another dimension to news from Palestine, NOT ONLY WAR
Mar 29 21:03:05 George there is life in Palestine, and I guess this is important
Mar 29 21:03:06 fadi the idea of that is to show more about the life in Palestine
Mar 29 21:04:12 * ghassan has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Mar 29 21:05:27 henrynorr Some (perhaps not all) the reports produced by ISM also deserve a wider audience, IMO. How about including them?
Mar 29 21:05:34 jenka how about other contributors?
Mar 29 21:06:36 Lora I understand you want to have more of a radio component?
Mar 29 21:06:55 jenka we received an endorsement from the IWPS - international women's peace service, who are internationals in the Salfit district ....they also write good articles about the settlements there, and the wall, that could be included
Mar 29 21:06:55 Lora If this is the case, it may be good to work with...
Mar 29 21:07:07 Lora there's a group in Dheisha camp
Mar 29 21:07:12 Lora a kids radio group
Mar 29 21:07:14 jenka Ibdaa
Mar 29 21:07:27 Lora Yeah okay so it's Ibdaa who's doing that
Mar 29 21:07:39 Lora It would be great to get radio from them
Mar 29 21:07:44 jenka Ziad - i tried to ask him to come to this meeting, but couldn't get him
Mar 29 21:08:25 Lora Okay, but you are already working on that
Mar 29 21:08:37 Lora Cool :)
Mar 29 21:08:43 farraj what do think about decumantry films
Mar 29 21:08:43 George we will talk with Ziad anyway
Mar 29 21:09:03 George Farraj: I guess doc films is a step ahead
Mar 29 21:09:12 henrynorr I or someone else could try talking to Nor Barrows-Friedman, who works on the Ibdaa radio project (mostly) from here in California
Mar 29 21:09:27 Lora I know Nora and have been meaning to get in touch with her
Mar 29 21:09:31 jenka Nora was here, working with Ibdaa, she left in February
Mar 29 21:09:37 jenka i have been emailing with her
Mar 29 21:09:56 henrynorr cool
Mar 29 21:10:01 Lora Great
Mar 29 21:10:29 jenka ok listen - it doesn't seem like people in this meeting have any objections to this proposal...so maybe we should just take it up on the listserve
Mar 29 21:10:38 George BTW,, PNN also has a infrastructure for Radio
Mar 29 21:10:47 George IMEMC has basic equipment as well
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Mar 29 21:11:33 jenka we should have the list set up in a few days, and can add anyone who was on the CC: list for this meeting, and anyone else who wants to participate in the discussion
Mar 29 21:11:36 Lora That's great could radio be merged in some way then?
Mar 29 21:11:57 George we did not discuss this yet
Mar 29 21:12:50 Lora Okay, I just remembered reading something about a radio stream, or expanding the audio aspect of the sites in some way.
Mar 29 21:13:10 George yes this is true,, it must be expanded
Mar 29 21:13:41 henrynorr Both PNN and IMEMC already have links on their sites to their audio casts, right? At a minimum they could just be linked from the new indymedia site, and then perhaps the Ibdaa kids' pieces could be added.
Mar 29 21:14:35 Lora That sounds like a good start
Mar 29 21:14:39 jenka i am also working on coding a podcast rss feed - so people can sign up and automatically download the newest audio reports onto their ipods or computers
Mar 29 21:14:48 ShadiFadda Israeli forces prevent several Qalqilia farmers from entering their land cut off by the Wall inside the northwestern West Bank, claiming that their Red ID cards are old
Mar 29 21:15:06 fadi PNN report that
Mar 29 21:15:07 ShadiFadda huh
Mar 29 21:15:14 Chris Mohamed and I are working on a Podcast from Balata
Mar 29 21:15:22 ShadiFadda i am sorry, by mistake pasted here instead of my software??
Mar 29 21:15:36 jenka chris: great! will it be in english or arabic?
Mar 29 21:15:39 * ShadiFadda has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Mar 29 21:16:00 * fadi has quit (Quit: fadi)
Mar 29 21:16:32 jenka well, are there other issues that need to be discussed in this meeting, or can we continue it on the email list?
Mar 29 21:16:33 Chris Mohamed would be better to answer that. We are still talking about feasability
Mar 29 21:16:56 George we can continue on the list, but it is important to have meetings like this
Mar 29 21:17:00 George it saves time
Mar 29 21:17:45 jenka yes - but it looks like petros, ryan, bilal -- the people who had issues with this proposal -- are not here
Mar 29 21:17:52 * guest-en (~c345d201 at 18.104.22.168) has joined #palestine
Mar 29 21:18:16 George this is why we must meet again
Mar 29 21:18:18 marais may I join the list? I would like to contribute :) it was a beautiful dream when it started
Mar 29 21:18:29 >marais< sure tell me your email
Mar 29 21:18:37 George I spoke with Bilal this morning, he is going out of the country for ten days
Mar 29 21:18:55 George and will not be able to be in meetings,, but he said he is willing to help
Mar 29 21:19:09 George Jenka can add you
Mar 29 21:21:22 jenka anything else we need to discuss now?
Mar 29 21:21:37 George i guess this is it for tonight,
Mar 29 21:21:49 Chris Thanks for inviting me!
Mar 29 21:21:57 jenka who is guest-en?
Mar 29 21:22:03 guest-en ShadiFadda
Mar 29 21:22:07 marais and thanks to let me stay as well :)
Mar 29 21:23:38 * George has quit (Quit: George)
Mar 29 21:23:48 jenka great ......anyone else not on the list?
Mar 29 21:23:56 henrynorr I guess I'll sign off. Bye, all - I hope we'll be in touch again soon.
Mar 29 21:23:58 * guest-en-445 (pjirc at 22.214.171.124) has joined #palestine
Mar 29 21:24:39 * guest-en-445 is now known as George
Mar 29 21:24:56 Chris I'm not... could you add me?
Mar 29 21:26:16 George Lora, r you still tere
Mar 29 21:26:17 George there
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Mar 29 21:29:21 * guest-en-632 is now known as George
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 29 23:39:34 2006
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 12 19:45:42 2006
Apr 12 19:45:42 * Now talking on #palestine
Apr 12 19:45:42 * Topic for #palestine is: imc-ps-process admins: who; other issues...
Apr 12 19:45:42 * Topic for #palestine set by boud!boud at localhost at Tue Apr 11 11:39:10 2006
Apr 12 19:48:31 >ryan< you here?
Apr 12 19:51:40 * sabbah (~53883803 at 22.214.171.124) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 19:52:09 devlish hey people
Apr 12 19:52:23 devlish we are still waiting to hear back from FSR
Apr 12 19:52:33 * Alfajertv (~hob5000 at 126.96.36.199) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 19:52:50 devlish so are still in the office
Apr 12 19:52:53 sabbah hello everyone
Apr 12 19:54:02 devlish hello sabbah : )
Apr 12 19:54:29 sabbah hi devlish
Apr 12 19:55:54 devlish hey : )
Apr 12 19:56:15 sabbah what's up man
Apr 12 19:56:24 sabbah is it early?
Apr 12 19:56:55 devlish no just waiting for meeting to start
Apr 12 19:57:05 sabbah i can't recal what time it is in palestine now, is it already 8
Apr 12 19:57:17 devlish in 1 min
Apr 12 19:57:24 devlish where are you ?
Apr 12 19:57:37 sabbah ok, I thought we have a time difference
Apr 12 19:57:40 sabbah I'm in bahrain
Apr 12 19:58:03 devlish what time is it in Barain ?
Apr 12 19:58:16 sabbah that's were I live and work
Apr 12 19:58:24 sabbah it is 8 pm only
Apr 12 19:58:27 devlish oh so time differnce
Apr 12 19:58:32 devlish yeah
Apr 12 19:58:36 sabbah but i thought in palestine they are one hour behind us
Apr 12 19:59:13 * shiar_away is now known as shiar
Apr 12 19:59:15 * meramar (~53f45462 at 188.8.131.52) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 19:59:22 devlish but we were going to chat in the same palce but are getting a radio feature fpr the states who are ten hours behind us so are waiting to hear back from them
Apr 12 19:59:47 sabbah cool
Apr 12 19:59:54 devlish so cannot leave
Apr 12 20:00:07 devlish whatya doing in bahrain ?
Apr 12 20:00:45 sabbah i work for a mobile telecom co. here
Apr 12 20:01:10 sabbah it's been 3 years already, nice place, nice people
Apr 12 20:01:21 devlish do you do a lot of indy stuff generally
Apr 12 20:01:23 sabbah what about you, where do u live?
Apr 12 20:01:37 devlish in Plaestine at the moment
Apr 12 20:01:48 sabbah cool
Apr 12 20:01:56 sabbah indy stuff? what do u mean?
Apr 12 20:02:08 devlish indymedia
Apr 12 20:02:48 sabbah i know what it stand for, but i'm asking what indy stuff you think I'm doing?
Apr 12 20:03:07 sabbah in fact all my time is devided between blogs
Apr 12 20:03:12 devlish this is a channel for sorting out the Palestine Indymedia project
Apr 12 20:03:23 jenka hey i made a log of the last irc meeting, but i didn't post it because i didn't ask first
Apr 12 20:03:26 devlish sounds cool
Apr 12 20:03:56 sabbah yeah :)
Apr 12 20:04:19 sabbah jenka, so you are here, hi ;)
Apr 12 20:05:22 * George-IMEMC (pjirc at 184.108.40.206) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:05:54 George-IMEMC Hello Everyone\
Apr 12 20:05:54 shiar is everyone here supposed to be involved with setting up imc pal?
Apr 12 20:05:54 devlish hey george
Apr 12 20:06:00 devlish hey shiar
Apr 12 20:06:12 shiar hey
Apr 12 20:06:18 sabbah hello shiar
Apr 12 20:06:25 shiar lo
Apr 12 20:06:32 devlish it would be great to have you as uk bods with araby are hard to find who are also intersted in indy
Apr 12 20:06:50 George-IMEMC Hazem, nice to see you online..
Apr 12 20:06:55 devlish am talking to shiar
Apr 12 20:07:04 shiar :)
Apr 12 20:07:07 * shadifadda (c29299ea at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:07:46 Alfajertv me too
Apr 12 20:08:25 * Fadi (pjirc at 220.127.116.11) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:09:04 shadifadda hi everyone :)
Apr 12 20:09:14 shadifadda did I skip anything?
Apr 12 20:09:21 * Offering 20060329_irc_chat_log.txt to sabbah
Apr 12 20:09:24 George-IMEMC not yet Shadi
Apr 12 20:09:26 sabbah hey shadifadda
Apr 12 20:09:46 shadifadda hi sabbah
Apr 12 20:10:58 jenka i am sitting in a room with hossam, saed, ehab, peter
Apr 12 20:11:19 devlish wish I was with you
Apr 12 20:11:21 jenka talking about indymedia palestine and linux......they are interested in linux
Apr 12 20:11:28 Fadi Guys, I will not be online for this meeting, maybe somebody from PNN will join you, but George will be in touch with me all the time and I will try to give feedback when needed.
Apr 12 20:11:43 jenka how about if i send the log from the last meeting to the cc: list....is everyone on the list?
Apr 12 20:11:46 George-IMEMC Ok Fadi,,
Apr 12 20:12:22 * DCC SEND 20060329_irc_chat_log.txt to sabbah timed out - aborting.
Apr 12 20:12:23 Fadi sorry guys, see later,, I really appologize for not being able to join you this evening.
Apr 12 20:12:54 * Fadi has quit (Client Quit)
Apr 12 20:14:11 George-IMEMC Hey Ryan,, I wonder if we have met when you were in Palestine
Apr 12 20:14:31 shiar so has this gone through the new imc process yet?
Apr 12 20:15:08 devlish what is the new process is there a wikki ?
Apr 12 20:15:13 George-IMEMC Shiar, did you introduce yourself? I might have missed it,,
Apr 12 20:15:34 shiar am from imc uk and i speak arabic
Apr 12 20:15:47 George-IMEMC Alright, thanks
Apr 12 20:15:56 jenka shiar: check the archives of the new-imc list - that will tell you the status of the project
Apr 12 20:16:10 shiar k
Apr 12 20:16:37 jenka if anyone is not on the cc: list, msg me your email address and i will email you the log of the last meeting
Apr 12 20:16:52 jenka is it ok with everyone if i log this meeting?
Apr 12 20:17:03 George-IMEMC yes
Apr 12 20:17:09 sabbah i'm ok
Apr 12 20:17:27 devlish cool
Apr 12 20:17:31 shadifadda no objections :)
Apr 12 20:18:12 shiar is this channel registered and encrypted and everything
Apr 12 20:19:44 George-IMEMC Where is Saed?
Apr 12 20:20:04 * ftp (d454794b at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:20:14 ftp lo
Apr 12 20:20:17 shiar hi ftp:)
Apr 12 20:20:22 ftp :)
Apr 12 20:20:23 shiar good to see you again
Apr 12 20:20:39 ftp likewise
Apr 12 20:20:44 George-IMEMC who is ftp?
Apr 12 20:20:57 ftp hi George - it's Robin
Apr 12 20:21:09 George-IMEMC Aha,,hopw are ya.,,,
Apr 12 20:21:15 George-IMEMC long time no see my friend
Apr 12 20:21:21 ftp okay thanks, and you?
Apr 12 20:21:30 devlish hey ftp : )
Apr 12 20:21:43 ftp yeah - I tried to come for christmas and spent 8 days in an Israeli cell :(
Apr 12 20:21:46 George-IMEMC I doing fine
Apr 12 20:21:50 ftp hi devlish
Apr 12 20:21:56 devlish hey my dear
Apr 12 20:21:59 George-IMEMC damn, i heared about it,,
Apr 12 20:22:10 ftp yeah - bummer
Apr 12 20:23:43 jenka i will brb ....saed is here now, he will fill me in
Apr 12 20:24:05 devlish no I have skype
Apr 12 20:24:13 devlish and he pm me
Apr 12 20:24:30 * saedb (~saedb at 18.104.22.168) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:25:43 saedb hello all
Apr 12 20:25:55 * shiar is waiting for the meeting to kick off
Apr 12 20:25:57 ryan hello all
Apr 12 20:26:04 sabbah hey Saed
Apr 12 20:26:08 saedb hala
Apr 12 20:26:15 devlish hey there
Apr 12 20:26:22 saedb i c most of us are here
Apr 12 20:26:46 devlish yay!
Apr 12 20:28:14 shiar arabic punctuality ey :P
Apr 12 20:31:40 * jebba (jebba at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:31:52 * ben_ (ben at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:32:00 saedb hey jebba how r u
Apr 12 20:32:34 George-IMEMC I guess we are expecting more people to join,,
Apr 12 20:32:42 George-IMEMC but what do you think, should we start?
Apr 12 20:32:56 shiar it's getting late innit?
Apr 12 20:33:07 jenka rooah george
Apr 12 20:33:15 devlish hey ben
Apr 12 20:33:35 jebba heya
Apr 12 20:33:47 jenka does anyone else want the log from the last irc meeting emailed to them?
Apr 12 20:33:47 devlish am ready to start
Apr 12 20:33:56 George-IMEMC who are jebba and ben
Apr 12 20:33:57 ryan jenka: i would like that please
Apr 12 20:34:00 devlish yes please
Apr 12 20:34:13 * ben_ is london uk
Apr 12 20:34:19 sabbah me too plz
Apr 12 20:34:33 George-IMEMC and jebba??
Apr 12 20:34:38 jebba George-IMEMC, i am an indymedia sysadmin
Apr 12 20:34:57 George-IMEMC cool
Apr 12 20:35:00 shiar i.e. a techie ;)
Apr 12 20:35:29 George-IMEMC I ask, because I always prefer to know who I am talking to... and everybody uses nick names
Apr 12 20:35:46 jebba i'm jeff at indymedia.org
Apr 12 20:35:50 * ben_ is not a nick
Apr 12 20:36:05 shiar hehe
Apr 12 20:36:26 George-IMEMC good
Apr 12 20:36:37 * ben_ slaps self after revealing true identity
Apr 12 20:36:40 sabbah you didn't ask me George, so I assum you know me ;)
Apr 12 20:37:22 ben_ devlish could vouch for most on here I suspect
Apr 12 20:38:00 >ryan< ryan at linefeed.org right?
Apr 12 20:38:11 jenka is raad here?
Apr 12 20:38:50 devlish yay and ftp
Apr 12 20:38:50 George-IMEMC Sabbah: I got your name from Jenka,,
Apr 12 20:38:50 ben_ ftp.. cool, long time, where you been?
Apr 12 20:38:50 sabbah Haitham Sabbah, of http://sabbah.biz/ blog, and admin of palestine blogs aggregator, and MENA regional editor at Global Voices Online
Apr 12 20:38:50 devlish ben looks after a social centre in london called ramparts
Apr 12 20:38:50 George-IMEMC I am glad that we have more indymedia people now than last week, this is REALLY Great
Apr 12 20:38:50 devlish that does lotsa pal support stuff
Apr 12 20:39:09 ftp @ ben - hibernating ;)
Apr 12 20:39:29 * jenka volunteer with imemc in palestine right now.....and all around indymedia and open source activist
Apr 12 20:40:03 George-IMEMC Raad is not here yet, he said he will be online,, I am trying to call him, but I am unable to reach him at the moment
Apr 12 20:40:16 sabbah so, are we starting or do I have the chance to log-off and on using another IRC client?
Apr 12 20:40:25 devlish devlish imemc volunteer and indy uk bod, as well on working on various indy projects around the place
Apr 12 20:40:42 George-IMEMC you will miss intros Sabbah
Apr 12 20:41:01 sabbah i'm staying :)
Apr 12 20:41:06 shiar [18:17] <@shiar> from imc uk and i speak arabic :)
Apr 12 20:41:19 ftp ftp - indymedia london/uk - ismer
Apr 12 20:41:21 >sabbah< tell me your email again and i'll email you the log now
Apr 12 20:41:32 George-IMEMC George is IMEMC as well, director of the Rapprochement Centre in Beit Sahour, and co-founder of ISM inshallah soon Indymedia Palestine
Apr 12 20:41:49 * Alfajertv (~hob5000 at 22.214.171.124) has left #palestine
Apr 12 20:43:44 devlish sabbeh your blog looks interesting
Apr 12 20:44:06 George-IMEMC what is your blog sabbah
Apr 12 20:44:10 sabbah :) thx
Apr 12 20:44:19 jenka hmmm too bad we can't have translation.......it seems that is why hazem (alfajertv) from tulkarem left.......too much english....
Apr 12 20:44:37 sabbah my blog is http://sabbah.biz/
Apr 12 20:45:02 * Alster (alster at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 20:45:47 sabbah Palestine Blogs Aggregator is: http://palestineblogs.org/
Apr 12 20:45:52 George-IMEMC I will save it to check it later, thanks
Apr 12 20:46:29 jenka sabbah: are you the one who travelled with david rovics?
Apr 12 20:46:48 shadifadda are we due to start, so we can finish ;)
Apr 12 20:46:56 George-IMEMC I guess we should start
Apr 12 20:47:00 shiar i think irc server supports arabic script so if ppl wnat to write in arabic
Apr 12 20:47:14 George-IMEMC i will try it
Apr 12 20:47:19 George-IMEMC
Apr 12 20:47:34 George-IMEMC is it readable
Apr 12 20:47:42 devlish hmmm numbers only
Apr 12 20:47:50 shiar لا
Apr 12 20:48:00 jenka i think the agenda is: who will administer the imc-ps-process list? if there is to be an imc-ps-process list......or if we will just use imc-palestine list .....but since neither of the admins of imc-palestine list are here, it will be hard to make that decision
Apr 12 20:48:11 shiar that was no in arabic and i could read it here
Apr 12 20:48:15 jenka well i can read shiar's arabic text, but not george's
Apr 12 20:48:34 shiar your irc client should support arabic as well
Apr 12 20:48:35 devlish well can we not make another list for the process any way
Apr 12 20:50:13 jenka shiar: what text-encoding and font are you using on your client? and what client?
Apr 12 20:51:34 jenka shadi wants to get on with the meeting, so how about this: shadi, someone nominated you as one of the admins of the imc-ps-process list....what do people think about that?
Apr 12 20:52:28 jenka also, has everyone introduced themselves?
Apr 12 20:54:12 Python interface unloaded
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Apr 12 20:57:58 * Now talking on #palestine
Apr 12 20:57:58 * Topic for #palestine is: imc-ps-process admins: who; other issues...
Apr 12 20:57:58 * Topic for #palestine set by boud!boud at localhost at Tue Apr 11 11:39:10 2006
Apr 12 20:57:59 devlish I do not mind admining the list
Apr 12 20:58:11 jenka_ sorry, got disconnected
Apr 12 20:58:19 ryan i would like to see reformation of imc-palestine list ... and then a discussion about how to organize imc-palestine to avoid the mistakes of before
Apr 12 20:58:32 ryan i think there are a couple people with good ideas about how to do that
Apr 12 20:58:36 George-IMEMC good idea Ryan
Apr 12 20:58:37 devlish what were the main issues
Apr 12 20:58:57 jenka_ i want to respond to ben's question -- i wrote an email to Bilal, one of the admins of the old list, back in february, asking:
Apr 12 20:58:59 jenka_ >what happened to imc palestine after 2003?
Apr 12 20:59:02 * jenka has quit (Ping timeout: 612 seconds)
Apr 12 20:59:06 jenka_ he responded:
Apr 12 20:59:13 * saedb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ Daer : still we have problem with the list and for the web site , for that
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ we do not reply on you can contact Syatel imc to ask them for adding you to
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ imc palestine list , we do not access on it
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ am sorry , after 2003 imc poaletsine has alot =of problem , internal and
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ international problem , so so most of the group inclouding me withrow
Apr 12 20:59:21 jenka_ cheers
Apr 12 20:59:52 ryan yes, thats about right :)
Apr 12 21:00:14 shiar what kind of problems?
Apr 12 21:00:17 ryan bilal is stil very eager to contribute
Apr 12 21:00:22 ben_ so.. we are not simply talking about tech problems here?
Apr 12 21:00:28 ryan none of it is tech problems
Apr 12 21:00:38 devlish there is a big tech discussion to be had
Apr 12 21:00:58 devlish but this is not a problem
Apr 12 21:01:00 ben_ so a new list will not solve those problems but will allow the process to continue
Apr 12 21:01:05 jenka_ ben: some of the history can be found on the discussion on the new-imc list archives
Apr 12 21:01:25 ryan so, unfortunately i have to leave for 1/2 hour now
Apr 12 21:01:58 jenka_ btw ryan - there are several guys here in palestine who are really interested in learning sf-active in order to do tech for the site
Apr 12 21:02:15 shiar just a short summmary would help us understand i guess
Apr 12 21:02:17 ryan my big input is that i think imc-pal should be reconstructed into many smaller imc's which can be syndicated to one imc-pal
Apr 12 21:02:41 jenka_ ben: the old imc was just a few people. it was only around for a few months in 2002 .....
Apr 12 21:02:48 ryan i think layout of palestine is perfect for a setup like that -- geographic and how the traditional movement there is already organized
Apr 12 21:03:05 devlish hmm can we have that structure with sf active
Apr 12 21:03:12 * saedb-imemc (~saedb at 126.96.36.199) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:03:15 ryan devlish: yes
Apr 12 21:03:19 ryan and ok i can help anyone with sfa but i gotta go
Apr 12 21:03:19 ryan biab
Apr 12 21:03:28 saedb-imemc am back, i had a small eror
Apr 12 21:03:32 ben_ ryan. would that address the internal conflicts or rsolve any of the inevitable problems that a controverisal site such has this will attract?
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Apr 12 21:03:40 devlish especailly the difficulty of getting from palce palce due to the israelis
Apr 12 21:03:51 devlish with id cards etc
Apr 12 21:04:15 jenka_ ben: please read the proposal for the new imc-palestine, as it does address some of the inevitable problems that such a controversial site will attract
Apr 12 21:04:36 * Raad (~pjirc at 188.8.131.52) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:04:51 devlish so to cover stuff regional collectives would be great with equal input into a central pal page
Apr 12 21:04:54 Raad hey
Apr 12 21:05:06 devlish hey : )
Apr 12 21:05:19 Raad sorry its keep disconnecting
Apr 12 21:05:51 jenka_ proposal can be found here: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2006-March/0316-or.html
Apr 12 21:06:11 Raad its easy to found also on google
Apr 12 21:06:38 * Raad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Apr 12 21:07:22 saedb-imemc تجربة اللغة العربية عبر البرنامج test
Apr 12 21:07:34 saedb-imemc alright, works fine
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Apr 12 21:08:08 George-IMEMC i can read your arabic
Apr 12 21:08:28 * guest-en (~5750d313 at bb-87-80-211-19.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:08:28 saedb-imemc gr8
Apr 12 21:08:32 sabbah can't read it here :(
Apr 12 21:08:35 jenka_ i can read saed's arabic typing too
Apr 12 21:08:43 guest-en haam
Apr 12 21:08:53 shiar me too
Apr 12 21:09:14 * skidz (~jirc at c-71-233-248-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:09:14 jebba i can read saedb-imemc Well, i should say i see arabic text.... looks cool at least ;)
Apr 12 21:09:25 George-IMEMC guest-en is that Osama
Apr 12 21:09:27 * guest-en has quit (Client Quit)
Apr 12 21:09:49 skidz hey, sorry i'm late
Apr 12 21:09:51 skidz this is rona
Apr 12 21:09:59 shiar so basically the prob was consesual decision-making and monpolisation by some
Apr 12 21:10:04 devlish hey : )
Apr 12 21:10:29 shadifadda can anyone organize this chat, so we can know the points we%u2019re to discuss, and go point by point?
Apr 12 21:11:12 * na3neessh (~5750d313 at bb-87-80-211-19.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:11:21 na3neessh marhba
Apr 12 21:11:36 jenka_ 1. new list: should there be a new list? should it be called imc-ps-process? who will administer?
Apr 12 21:11:52 skidz marhabtein
Apr 12 21:11:56 devlish I do not mind doing this
Apr 12 21:11:58 jenka_ 2. regional collectives -- is this even a possibility? maybe PNN can help?
Apr 12 21:12:08 jenka_ sorry, go ahead devlish
Apr 12 21:12:22 * jebba raises
Apr 12 21:12:26 jenka_ meen inte na3neessh?
Apr 12 21:12:46 * ftp has to leave now - devlish will update me
Apr 12 21:12:53 devlish hm regional collectives should grow out of a pal project if needed
Apr 12 21:12:57 * Raad (~pjirc at 184.108.40.206) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:13:11 jenka_ re jebba
Apr 12 21:13:14 * ftp has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Apr 12 21:13:24 na3neessh so can some body fell me with what is going on
Apr 12 21:13:31 na3neessh jen hello
Apr 12 21:13:33 na3neessh its osama
Apr 12 21:13:38 Raad sorry again for being disconnected
Apr 12 21:13:47 George-IMEMC Osama, I wil fill you in
Apr 12 21:13:59 na3neessh oka
Apr 12 21:14:02 skidz jenka, maybe you should ocntinue
Apr 12 21:14:02 skidz continue
Apr 12 21:14:05 Raad OPs
Apr 12 21:14:12 devlish so maybe one pal page which regions input into and then if there are enough people from a region ie nablus then may be a nablus or balata project happens
Apr 12 21:14:33 jenka_ ok 3. who will host the server? who will administer?
Apr 12 21:14:42 skidz ?
Apr 12 21:14:44 jenka_ 4. site editors - volunteers
Apr 12 21:15:03 skidz ah, sorry
Apr 12 21:15:25 Raad i think this is ok devlish since ism palestine endorse the proposal for imc palestine ism maintain pressence in most of the region in palestiune
Apr 12 21:15:29 jenka_ devlish: let's cover #1 - the list formation, then go to #2 the rego=ional question
Apr 12 21:15:42 devlish ok
Apr 12 21:16:13 Raad ok cool then
Apr 12 21:17:18 * jebba jumps in
Apr 12 21:17:24 jebba I'm against a new list
Apr 12 21:17:35 devlish why ?
Apr 12 21:17:41 jebba Just use the old one, keeping the old admins so they don't feel left out, and we add a few people from here that want to admin
Apr 12 21:18:03 Raad nope
Apr 12 21:18:08 jebba otherwise its the "which list should i email too?" and it gets messy. The old list should be fine and we alll just subscribe to it.
Apr 12 21:18:18 * jebba done
Apr 12 21:18:30 George-IMEMC as I mentioned earlier, I agree to Jebba's suggestion
Apr 12 21:18:33 Raad the old one should be change since this imc is a new imc and need a new people to be in
Apr 12 21:18:34 sabbah jebba: old admins are not active for 3 years, why would you keep them?
Apr 12 21:18:50 Raad otherwise we shouldnt call it new imc palestine
Apr 12 21:18:54 jebba Raad, well, you /add/ people to it.
Apr 12 21:19:19 shadifadda I guess, old List with new admins, if possible
Apr 12 21:19:20 jebba sabbah, well, we could boot them too, but that's another whole process unto itself. Keep it simple.
Apr 12 21:19:38 jenka_ the old admins, Bilal and Lubna, are not here. but they did express some interest in maintaining control over the old list. George, you have talked with both of them -- what do you think?
Apr 12 21:19:46 sabbah ok
Apr 12 21:20:13 Raad im against belial being admin for the list
Apr 12 21:20:22 jenka_ the other problem with the old list is it is closed and fully moderated
Apr 12 21:20:25 George-IMEMC both expressed interest, and Lubna said she has some more young Palestinians interested to contribute
Apr 12 21:20:45 jebba i also, from experience, suggest the list be fully open.
Apr 12 21:20:50 skidz is there a reason why if we have everyone as admins it will not work?
Apr 12 21:21:01 George-IMEMC I am for an open list for members, moderated for nonmembers
Apr 12 21:21:04 skidz also, i think there are good reasons for the list not to be open
Apr 12 21:21:15 skidz that doesn't mean it cannot work
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Apr 12 21:21:20 jenka_ and this new proposal is to have a list that is open, with open archives, and unmoderated posting for members
Apr 12 21:21:38 jenka_ skidz: what are the reasons?
Apr 12 21:21:48 skidz security/privacy
Apr 12 21:22:16 George-IMEMC to avoide being added to spam lists, or not needed list,,
Apr 12 21:22:20 skidz we've had these issues with imc israel with israeli security and i assume they won't be easier on the palestinians
Apr 12 21:22:22 jebba skidz, let me assert that a closed list increases neither privacy nor security.
Apr 12 21:22:25 George-IMEMC you need to be a member to post,
Apr 12 21:22:32 na3neessh what about geting an infostructure do so
Apr 12 21:22:57 skidz but we only have important lists closed
Apr 12 21:23:04 skidz like admin
Apr 12 21:23:15 skidz video, photo, etc. are open
Apr 12 21:23:26 Raad i totaly agree with skidz
Apr 12 21:23:38 jebba skidz, you cannot protect an indymedia mailing list from israeli (nor any) security force by having it "closed"
Apr 12 21:23:53 skidz yes you can
Apr 12 21:24:03 jebba heh
Apr 12 21:24:10 jebba ...
Apr 12 21:24:16 skidz if you only allow people you know in it, as much as you can
Apr 12 21:25:20 jenka_ proposal: we make an imc-ps-process list, as proposed earlier, make it an open, unmoderated (except for non-members) list, and add everyone from the CC: list
Apr 12 21:25:36 jebba http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/
Apr 12 21:25:36 George-IMEMC well, security guys can access as any member and do what they want to do
Apr 12 21:25:36 George-IMEMC I do not think this is the issue
Apr 12 21:25:36 shiar_ transparency is *very* importnat for the process
Apr 12 21:25:36 skidz we've had people's computers taken etc.
Apr 12 21:25:36 jebba all your traffic is intercepted. But I think I'm dragging us off topic, so i'll shut up now.
Apr 12 21:25:36 skidz it is transparent if everyone interested is allowed in
Apr 12 21:25:36 George-IMEMC transperancy is a must, no question,,
Apr 12 21:25:36 skidz the problem with the old list was that people were getting kicked off
Apr 12 21:25:36 ryan skidz :)
Apr 12 21:25:36 George-IMEMC rules can be set, if there are no rules already
Apr 12 21:25:45 shiar_ how could transparent with a closed list
Apr 12 21:25:58 ryan wait, open list?
Apr 12 21:25:59 shiar_ how could you be..
Apr 12 21:26:05 jenka_ i agree with shiar: this process should be transparent
Apr 12 21:26:26 ryan does open list mean open archives that do not require a password to view?
Apr 12 21:26:27 Raad right but at least u do what u should do then at least make harder to be broken
Apr 12 21:26:35 skidz whoever wants to can ask the moderators
Apr 12 21:26:55 skidz so it is only that people have to ask and therefore we can know how is looking - more or less
Apr 12 21:27:01 * shiar_ feels strongly about this to the extent of blocking a closed list prposal
Apr 12 21:27:21 skidz sorry, who is looking
Apr 12 21:27:38 George-IMEMC can somebody tell me what is wrong with an open unmoderated list for members.. and anybody can join
Apr 12 21:28:00 Raad i think the admin list shouldnt be open
Apr 12 21:28:02 skidz so if bilal, raad, george, and jenka were admins one of them would have to approve, but htere are many setting etc.
Apr 12 21:28:16 skidz i think we shold all be on the same page before we even discuss this
Apr 12 21:29:03 ryan here is what i think -- a full discussion of what happened with the last imc-palestine would include discussion that should not be on an indymedia list
Apr 12 21:29:04 Raad cool
Apr 12 21:29:09 ryan for security reasons
Apr 12 21:29:20 Raad aha
Apr 12 21:30:06 na3neessh i think though am not very much sure of it is this list mean that it should be controlled to certin extend ,,,
Apr 12 21:30:48 Raad its not control i think we should seperate between members and admin
Apr 12 21:31:20 na3neessh but teh admin will ahve control
Apr 12 21:31:40 Raad not really
Apr 12 21:31:47 George-IMEMC again, I want to say this again
Apr 12 21:32:20 George-IMEMC my proposal is that the list is unmoderated for members, moderated for nonmembers, admins have to approve nonmember-messages
Apr 12 21:33:01 shiar_ which what all indy lists are like
Apr 12 21:33:03 sabbah I agree with you George. and for security issues: if a hand from outside palestine can help, i'm all for it
Apr 12 21:33:47 ryan for security reasons, the mailing list will not be a place we can talk about every issue from the past, and i imagine new issues that will come up
Apr 12 21:33:55 ryan i could write something up which explains this
Apr 12 21:34:08 na3neessh i think that reasonable
Apr 12 21:34:13 ryan but i am not in favor of a closed list because it could give a false sense of security
Apr 12 21:34:14 * shiar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Apr 12 21:34:25 ryan but this issue contributed to some of the problems we had before with imc-pal
Apr 12 21:34:25 skidz yeah, i'm not sure eveyrone here understands this stuff
Apr 12 21:34:28 skidz yet
Apr 12 21:35:17 skidz i think the way to progress with this whole situtation is to get a list up, a secure one, and go from there
Apr 12 21:35:21 * Sabbah_ (~Sabbah at 220.127.116.11) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:35:29 skidz we can set up working group lists, site lists, whatever
Apr 12 21:36:03 George-IMEMC I would assume that discussion on a list like this will not include something that we should be worried about if Israeli security reads it
Apr 12 21:36:23 skidz you are wrong
Apr 12 21:36:26 skidz george
Apr 12 21:36:31 George-IMEMC why?
Apr 12 21:37:00 George-IMEMC what could be the worse example?
Apr 12 21:37:14 na3neessh i agree you need to start some were and see how its goes and aftr that we will have afoucous .....
Apr 12 21:37:22 Raad so far what i know that the owner or the admin list is deffrent from the members one or the level shoulkd be diffrent
Apr 12 21:37:38 skidz because they know who you know and what you are doing to the extent of how to get on your list
Apr 12 21:37:43 Raad if we all can agree on somthing like that then things might be ok
Apr 12 21:37:53 devlish the aims of this project should be transparency
Apr 12 21:38:19 ryan can i say that it is not just ISraeli security
Apr 12 21:38:23 ryan certainly that is a big part of it
Apr 12 21:38:33 ryan but also the us state department
Apr 12 21:38:39 devlish open lists means that what is discussed is the admin and editorial, tech needs of the site surely
Apr 12 21:38:52 * pussy (~pjirc at bb-87-80-211-19.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:38:57 devlish not any thing that would endanger any one
Apr 12 21:38:58 Raad transparency in terms of publishing or editoroial policy not regarding the admin list
Apr 12 21:38:59 ryan sometimes the us state department has misunderstandings about doing work like this
Apr 12 21:39:02 * pussy has quit (Client Quit)
Apr 12 21:39:06 na3neessh transarency security and all will come later you shlould starta and i think us being there will give us idea of how to be secure and transbenac and the rest of it
Apr 12 21:39:06 George-IMEMC what will happen if the shabak or others know what we are talking about in the list,, what is the big deal?? let them know,,
Apr 12 21:39:36 * skidz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Apr 12 21:39:39 * pussy (~pjirc at bb-87-80-211-19.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:39:40 devlish the presumption is that the site is for reporting of issues
Apr 12 21:39:49 ryan George-IMEMC: for instance, it could be illegal in the UK to send money or equipment to imc-pal
Apr 12 21:40:04 * skidz (~jirc at c-71-233-248-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:40:13 George-IMEMC Is that true?
Apr 12 21:40:15 skidz sorry lost it
Apr 12 21:40:19 ryan of course
Apr 12 21:40:23 Raad yes goeroge
Apr 12 21:40:50 George-IMEMC well, a closed list will not protect us then
Apr 12 21:40:50 na3neessh no its not
Apr 12 21:40:56 skidz it's not going to stop them but it makes things a little more comfortable is all
Apr 12 21:41:17 Raad cos now there is a new policy for sending money the banks outside looking for an addrss for the perosn u send to and here the bank should ask for some details
Apr 12 21:41:18 na3neessh close list will atrckt more security agent to target while an open one will secure us i think
Apr 12 21:41:28 ryan a closed list is not protection
Apr 12 21:41:29 skidz there are two ways
Apr 12 21:41:35 devlish comfortable leads to careless writing
Apr 12 21:42:11 George-IMEMC and modersted leads to no transperancy,,,
Apr 12 21:42:17 George-IMEMC so what is the solution?
Apr 12 21:42:23 Raad but u r not closing the whole list
Apr 12 21:42:26 devlish if people know it is open then they will will write with awareness and this more protection for the project
Apr 12 21:42:28 Raad just admin list
Apr 12 21:42:43 George-IMEMC sounds reasonable to me
Apr 12 21:42:50 skidz can someone write an explination of either so we're sure what we're talking about?
Apr 12 21:43:11 George-IMEMC a welcoming e-mail can be generated when people join, telling them to be sensitive in their writing
Apr 12 21:43:29 Raad nope
Apr 12 21:43:33 shadifadda guys, how many of us are sure that their PCs include no Israeli troyan or whatever?
Apr 12 21:43:51 pussy yeah
Apr 12 21:43:56 shadifadda so I guess it is not something to talk about, but consider it as reality we live in
Apr 12 21:44:02 devlish with guide lines of what is at risk in Palestine that is agreed by the collective
Apr 12 21:44:18 George-IMEMC seems like this to me
Apr 12 21:44:25 shadifadda on the other hand, we can sleep well, as we're not to plan any assassination ;)
Apr 12 21:44:41 George-IMEMC :p
Apr 12 21:44:43 devlish well any pc communication will be a problem
Apr 12 21:45:01 * pussy has quit (Quit: pussy)
Apr 12 21:45:05 devlish if the israelis wanna read your mail or fuck any thing they will list or no list
Apr 12 21:45:15 ryan here are the options:
Apr 12 21:45:32 ryan 1) a closed, encrypted list - this would be good protection but would be difficult to set up for everyone
Apr 12 21:45:55 George-IMEMC or?
Apr 12 21:45:57 devlish and lead to the project being inaccessable to new people
Apr 12 21:46:05 ryan 2) a closed list - this would be false protection and our discussions would have to be with security culture in mind
Apr 12 21:46:17 devlish leading to samll collective and work overload for those involved
Apr 12 21:46:22 ryan 3) an open list - same as #2, our discussions would have to be "censored" by security culture
Apr 12 21:46:35 shadifadda devlish, our objective I guess is to reach as many people. nope?
Apr 12 21:46:55 George-IMEMC I guess Ryan's #3 is my favorite\
Apr 12 21:47:01 * shiar_ is in favour of #3
Apr 12 21:47:08 ryan i think #2 is preferred -- we don't even want to be read by "israeli trolls" who then personally harrass, etc
Apr 12 21:47:12 na3neessh idont seee the close provide any security sorry this state of paranoiaa is bugring me
Apr 12 21:47:20 devlish our objective is for people to be their own media
Apr 12 21:47:23 skidz i guess we could have a general list for now and set up secure one as needed
Apr 12 21:47:41 skidz that was more people are involved, assuming not everyone has to know where the server is etc
Apr 12 21:47:49 ryan if it is #3, i won't use my real email address :) just because i dont want to be spammed forever by israeli's
Apr 12 21:47:49 devlish and have a say in how they want things to be run
Apr 12 21:47:51 George-IMEMC let us get a sense using numbers,, please on this issue
Apr 12 21:48:17 devlish sure you don't need to know where servers are to be involved
Apr 12 21:48:46 devlish maybe creat a mail for the project
Apr 12 21:48:48 Raad ????????
Apr 12 21:48:51 na3neessh ok can i aske qustion
Apr 12 21:48:54 na3neessh pleas
Apr 12 21:49:00 George-IMEMC go ahead osama
Apr 12 21:49:20 na3neessh what is this list for what is the reason behinde creating this list
Apr 12 21:49:24 * sel (~57c23b99 at 18.104.22.168) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 21:49:42 * shiar_ is now known as shiar
Apr 12 21:50:09 skidz this list was for re-organizing locally
Apr 12 21:50:21 na3neessh if taht is teh raeson how can we do it close or open but admin ??????
Apr 12 21:50:24 skidz following the new imc-palestine application
Apr 12 21:50:55 Raad ?
Apr 12 21:51:33 na3neessh if we do it close we are doing teh LTD thing ....while open but moniterd or admin will allow more acess a nd be more secure ,,,,so can we deside on this
Apr 12 21:51:53 devlish ltd?
Apr 12 21:52:04 Raad limited
Apr 12 21:52:10 na3neessh thats how its sound if its lcoooos
Apr 12 21:52:28 George-IMEMC again, I would go for #3,, and keep in mind some security culture
Apr 12 21:52:47 * shiar too
Apr 12 21:52:48 devlish on uk sesitive list are closed and member ship based such as legal for example
Apr 12 21:52:55 devlish but process is open
Apr 12 21:53:10 devlish tech is open
Apr 12 21:53:15 jenka_ jebba, ryan: is it possible to post a public archive, while blocking out everything after the @ in the poster's email address?
Apr 12 21:53:33 ryan jenka_: yeah, we can set that up
Apr 12 21:54:19 Raad then cool
Apr 12 21:54:39 na3neessh thats good
Apr 12 21:54:40 jenka_ then that is what i suggest: an open list, with open archives, and the email addresses blocked out (so no spammers)
Apr 12 21:55:07 jenka_ who will set up the list?
Apr 12 21:55:41 George-IMEMC sounds good to me
Apr 12 21:55:41 George-IMEMC alright,, can we move on to other issues?
Apr 12 21:55:41 na3neessh yes pleas
Apr 12 21:55:43 skidz admins
Apr 12 21:57:08 ryan i can make sure it happens
Apr 12 21:57:08 ryan i can do it today
Apr 12 21:57:14 Raad rayn can u update me in that
Apr 12 21:57:16 jenka_ can i suggest ghassan b (with imemc, in a non-leadership role, as boud suggested), raad
Apr 12 21:57:38 jenka_ as admins
Apr 12 21:58:02 jenka_ ?
Apr 12 21:58:11 ryan i need a list of email addresses to initially put on it
Apr 12 21:58:11 Raad cos im really so busy i suppose to leave palestine in three days so i might be out of reach for sometime
Apr 12 21:59:51 George-IMEMC i can admin,, or devlish
Apr 12 22:00:37 shadifadda what are the responsibilities of the admin?
Apr 12 22:00:49 shadifadda must be web-programmer?....
Apr 12 22:00:53 Raad good question
Apr 12 22:00:57 ryan shadifadda: no, it is easy
Apr 12 22:01:03 ryan list admin only does work, mostly
Apr 12 22:01:21 ryan some mail comes in and the list doesn't like it
Apr 12 22:01:28 jenka_ shadi: the admin, in a list like is being proposed (non-moderated, except for non-members) gets an email every once in a while saying 'do you want to approve this post?'
Apr 12 22:01:29 ryan so you have to look at it to see if it is worthwhile
Apr 12 22:01:39 Raad i dont think that he should be a web editor also can be
Apr 12 22:01:51 jenka_ then you look at the post, and if you agree it should go on the list, click on the link provided and then publish it
Apr 12 22:02:36 jenka_ how about raad, shadi, george, devlish and osama? as admins
Apr 12 22:02:40 Raad ok we're talkin about the list not about the web right?
Apr 12 22:03:02 ryan jenka_: George-IMEMC earlier said bilal at indymedia.org included in the admin list, can i ask on his behalf to include him?
Apr 12 22:03:36 ryan if only to make him feel like he is being invited to participate in the formation of the new imc-pal list?
Apr 12 22:03:42 skidz yeah
Apr 12 22:03:59 jenka_ ryan: there was an objection raised about bilal, that he was moderator of the old list, and had been keeping the list closed. but if george talked to him and thinks he won't close it off this time, then cool
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Apr 12 22:04:39 skidz i think that as long as we all communicate well and stay involved it should be ok
Apr 12 22:04:49 George-IMEMC i will talk to him again when he comes back,,
Apr 12 22:04:53 skidz and support adding bilal as administrator
Apr 12 22:04:54 ryan jenka_: i dunno who raised that objection -- i think after a while the list was closed because no one was paying attention
Apr 12 22:05:29 jenka_ ryan: the list was closed from the beginning -- fully moderate i mean -- even posting from mebers had to be approved by the list moderators
Apr 12 22:05:52 shiar can we move on pls?
Apr 12 22:06:02 Raad nope
Apr 12 22:06:14 ryan jenka_: hmm, i dont remember that -- there were a couple lists anyway for organizing, imc-palestine, imc-pal-volunteers, etc
Apr 12 22:07:37 na3neessh how long is this meeting last for ???????????
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Apr 12 22:08:24 jenka_ yes, we have been here for two hours. we should wrap it up
Apr 12 22:08:34 George-IMEMC yallah guys, if the list took all this time, what about the web, publishing policy etc
Apr 12 22:08:34 * devlish (~53f45462 at 22.214.171.124) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 22:08:36 na3neessh yes pleas
Apr 12 22:08:50 na3neessh so can we move on
Apr 12 22:09:02 skidz we're not there yet and i don't see why we're talking about it without an approval from new-imc unless i missed it
Apr 12 22:09:31 skidz i think the process is to create the list, see how to move on, go back to new-imc with something that can get approved
Apr 12 22:09:36 skidz then start working on the site
Apr 12 22:09:56 jenka_ ryan: may i suggest that george or someon else here create the list -- in order to know the process.....so it is not someone far away doing it? i think he also knows all the emails to add.....
Apr 12 22:10:22 George-IMEMC I never did it, but jenka can help me
Apr 12 22:10:39 na3neessh i can see coming
Apr 12 22:10:39 Raad sorry folks i got somthing very urgent to do i will try to be back to continue and will do my bests but if not can somone email my the latest thing u got to?
Apr 12 22:10:48 jebba http://newlist.indymedia.org/ <---- That's where you create a new mailing list FYI
Apr 12 22:11:07 ryan jenka_: thats fine -- i'm just a little unclear about how to mask the emails, if it is an admin option on the list ... if so, i gotta find it
Apr 12 22:11:10 George-IMEMC I will try
Apr 12 22:11:14 ryan jenka_: if not, i gotta make it :)
Apr 12 22:11:22 ryan jenka_: but i'll check some other list i'm an admin of
Apr 12 22:11:40 Raad i will be glad in helping doing the list just need the emails
Apr 12 22:11:59 na3neessh cool
Apr 12 22:12:04 Raad and also in any tech thing im happy to help
Apr 12 22:12:17 George-IMEMC what shall we call it
Apr 12 22:12:20 jenka_ ryan: i have not seen it on the admin options (masking emails) on any of the indymedia lists - jebba, do you know?
Apr 12 22:12:25 George-IMEMC IMC-PAl?
Apr 12 22:12:35 shiar i think it's "mass subscription" in "members"
Apr 12 22:13:29 jenka_ so for admins: george, raad, shadi, osama and bilal?
Apr 12 22:13:53 jenka_ hmm...no women....
Apr 12 22:14:05 jebba There is "obscure_addresses" optoin, but that may just be for anti-spam, so the email addresses may be human-readable. Not certain.
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Apr 12 22:14:24 Raad thats cool george
Apr 12 22:14:24 Raad again sorry i should go now
Apr 12 22:14:24 Raad please email me and let me know in what i can help to set this thing up
Apr 12 22:14:24 Raad caio for all
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Apr 12 22:14:53 jenka_ imc-pal sounds fine
Apr 12 22:14:56 George-IMEMC I will suggest Lubna to be added to admins
Apr 12 22:15:23 Sabbah_ jenka_" well, since I don't know any of the listed names, I can't say yes or no... but looks fine :)
Apr 12 22:15:42 saedb-imemc ok, i will aslo admin the list\
Apr 12 22:15:56 George-IMEMC that is one more male,
Apr 12 22:16:03 skidz yeah i think whoever past the three main reps for each group
Apr 12 22:16:11 jenka_ hehhe.....
Apr 12 22:17:26 jenka_ then lubna also
Apr 12 22:17:43 na3neessh cool how do we keep in touch
Apr 12 22:17:55 George-IMEMC through e-mail
Apr 12 22:17:55 na3neessh is theer any more fartther meetings
Apr 12 22:18:00 jenka_ osama: on the list of course! once george creates it
Apr 12 22:18:30 na3neessh yes is by this weekend
Apr 12 22:18:55 ryan well, let's just set it up and then we can discuss list-related issues on there :)
Apr 12 22:18:59 ryan we can at least do THAT in the open
Apr 12 22:19:06 na3neessh ill be more than happy to what ever i can ,,, let me knwo
Apr 12 22:19:12 jenka_ maybe we can meet again next week.....but i don't want it to be too much inconvenience for anyone
Apr 12 22:19:39 skidz no more irc meetings please
Apr 12 22:20:03 na3neessh i have to dash offnow
Apr 12 22:20:09 na3neessh any more urgent issues
Apr 12 22:20:11 jenka_ hey jebba - who do we talk to about posting an arabic translation of the newlist.indymedia.org page?
Apr 12 22:20:57 na3neessh if ther is any more meeting agenda and time pleas ......and let us nit leav it going forever
Apr 12 22:21:20 na3neessh salaamaat
Apr 12 22:21:49 jebba jenka_, I'm not certain, but you could ask in #listwork
Apr 12 22:22:17 jenka_ ok so maybe we just leave it at that -list creation by george, list admins george, raad, osama, bilal, saed, shadi and lubna......and discuss the rest of the issues on the list, once created. tayyib?
Apr 12 22:25:12 * shiar (shiar at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 22:25:43 shiar sorry i kicked the laptop :P
Apr 12 22:25:50 shiar did i miss a lot?
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Apr 12 22:26:46 ryan can we leave this channel open? it will be more useful as we start working on getting the tech side of things set up
Apr 12 22:27:48 * shadifadda (c29299ea at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 22:28:07 jenka_ ryan: ok but boud should op some folx so the topic can be changed at least.....and boud is gone
Apr 12 22:29:41 ryan hmm i can register it maybe?
Apr 12 22:30:07 jenka_ ok
Apr 12 22:30:11 ryan hm yeah
Apr 12 22:30:15 ryan everyone has to leave first :)
Apr 12 22:30:24 ryan or we wait for boud to do it
Apr 12 22:30:25 jenka_ i think everyone is gone. meeting closed?
Apr 12 22:30:40 George-IMEMC ??
Apr 12 22:30:45 Sabbah_ is it, ok... nice meeting u all :)
Apr 12 22:30:56 jenka_ i'm asking - what u think george?
Apr 12 22:31:51 shiar ok then, nice to see you all and keep up the good work :)
Apr 12 22:32:25 jebba I'll keep lurking in this channel. When boud returns, everyone can be made Ops or something so we can change #topic
Apr 12 22:32:50 * Sabbah_ (~Sabbah at 126.96.36.199) has left #palestine
Apr 12 22:36:41 George-IMEMC I am creating the list now
Apr 12 22:39:21 skidz cool
Apr 12 22:39:50 shadifadda take care everyone, ya3tiku alf 3afi :)
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Apr 12 22:56:06 na3neessh shadi
Apr 12 22:56:17 na3neessh is shadi feda still there
Apr 12 22:56:34 na3neessh could any body give shadis email
Apr 12 22:56:41 na3neessh or phone numbe r
Apr 12 23:02:38 * Alster_ (alster at localhost) has joined #palestine
Apr 12 23:05:00 shiar hey Alster :)
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Apr 12 23:07:27 * Alster_ is now known as Alster
Apr 12 23:09:52 shiar George-IMEMC: how is the list creating going?
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