[New-imc] private abuse from jenka Re: www-features Digest, Vol 39, Issue 13 (fwd)
clara at ifrik.org
Mon Jul 31 09:50:34 PDT 2006
honestly I would rather not see this argument between boud and however
carried out on new-imc any more.
why are you discussing on new-imc about how people in palestine should
do things? why not on an imc-palestine list?
sing and dance wrote:
> I repeat that I don't think this is relevant, and would prefer not to send it to the new-imc list.
> however, boud insists i do.
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:36:00 +0200 (CEST)
> boud <boud at riseup.net> wrote:
>> hi jenka,
>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, sing and dance wrote:
>>> (i would prefer not to cc: this to new-imc, as i think it is
>>> irrelevant to the list, but since boud insisted i do so, here you
>> In new-imc, we trust each other to state our disagreements
>> constructively and publicly.
>>> boud wrote:
>> (2) The idea is *not* to give total power to new people, it's to *share*
>> power among different palestinians. By definition, of course, at the
>> beginning, the people in "the core group" do not know the "new" people.
>> So there needs to be a process of communication, getting to know each
>> other, and so on.
>> Moreover, the fact that you say that you/IMEMC/PNN "don't even know
>> the people" (these are your words) means that there is a lack of
>> communication and knowing each other between different activist groups
>> in Palestine. So while there's no doubt that IMEMC/PNN are "the most
> the groups do know each other. as do the individuals.
> when i said earlier that your posts reflected a total lack of understanding of palestinian culture and politics, this is part of what i was referring to.
> the palestinians in question DO know each other......
> and the imemc and pnn are taking risks by reaching out to people who (at your insistence) be included, and including them.....despite prior experiences with said people.
> the reference to people "they don't even know" was about people like yourself and petros, internationals who are not here, but have inserting themselves so deeply into the process that, for example, a question would go from bilal (in bethlehem) to you (in poland) to george (in bethlehem). so why not cut out the middle man....that is all i, or anyone else, are asking.
>> i also don't understand why you say "you [boud] may be
>> disappointed". None of us want to be manipulative, nor do we want to
>> believe that others are manipulative. On the other hand, most of live
>> in hierarchical, abusive socio-political environments and it's quite
>> possible that many of us in indymedia (e.g. in new-imc)
>> unintentionally use manipulative techniques. This is the whole point
>> of trying to develop non-hierarchical techniques and to learn from
>> groups who say they already have experience in these, e.g.
> now i know how the palestinians feel, who keep telling me they feel you are talking down to them, patronizing them, in your emails. now i, too, can say i feel talked down to and patronized to.
> and i don't expect that you will SEE what i am talking about when you re-read this paragraph that you wrote. but perhaps others reading who know me and my work will take note of the patronizing tone that is used.
>> In any case, i'm not facilitating this anymore - beit sahour and other
>> palestine people have to communicate with the network either directly
>> or through other facilitators.
> if this is true, it will indeed make things much easier.
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