[New-imc] Online form: Proposed new IMC! (kuna)

Jay idiot at jaysand.com
Thu Feb 14 10:36:30 PST 2008 

Hi new-imc,

How are you all?!  I've been quiet for a long time, eh?

I saw the e-mails about the Kuna group come through and know Brooke 
just a bit, so I e-mailed her and offered to talk on the phone to 
give her a run-down of the new-imc process.  One good phone seems to 
cancel out about twenty e-mails which would otherwise have to go back 
and forth to explain things.

Brooke is already in Panama, so I talked with Gregg instead.  I gave 
him the basic description of the process and emphasized all the 
things that have already been said about the proposal on this list.

He'll be down in Panama soon and will relay all this information to 
the Kuna group.  Then, the decision of how, or whether, to proceed, 
will then be theirs.

I assume if they do choose to go forward they'll want to communicate 
in Spanish (unless someone in the IMC network speaks Kuna!).  Since 
my Spanish is muy terrible, I won't be a good new-imc 
liaison.  Though, I'll be happy to keep in touch the Brooke and Gregg 
and relay any questions they may have.

Okay, back to hibernation,
Jay

At 2/12/2008, boud wrote:
>hi gregg, all,
>
>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Gregg Osofsky wrote:
>
> > Your suggestions sound right on, but I guess I was hoping to get that kind
> > of guidance from you all. I'm an experienced web developer,
>
>So you should have no problems reading
>   https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
>and more generally
>
>https://docs.indymedia.org
>https://lists.indymedia.org
>
>to get that guidance.
>
> > but I've never
> > set up an IMC site and am unfamiliar with how it and the Indymedia Network
> > works.
>
>We don't fully know nor agree with one another how our network
>functions either. :) But read and observe and propose to Kuna people
>to have a go at doing this themselves and they'll form their own
>opinion and understanding.
>
> > My main interest in contacting you was to receive guidance in
> > addressing #1 and #2 below. Hopefully, our last email to you addresses your
> > concerns about our politics so at this point we move forward and get some
> > assistance developing a training that accomplishes the goals established by
> > our Kuna contacts. I would like to arrive next week with a plan in place so
> > your immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any further questions and how you suggest we
> > proceed at this point.
>
>Hopefully the main confusion will be cleared up if you read
>https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
>
>If the Kuna people you train decide that something like indymedia is
>what they really want, then at that point of time you'll be able to
>suggest that *they themselves* send in the form for becoming accepted
>into the network as an autonomous indymedia collective.
>
>toya's list of 3 points is also a good outline of a training session.
>
>If you give them a decent presentation/training in those 3 points,
>then they'll also realise that creating a cool-looking, open
>publishing, open editing website (e.g. which looks close enough to an
>indymedia website) can be done in 5 minutes or so (so i've been told,
>anyway, e.g. on a wikifarm, but there are probably plenty of other
>possibilities).  On the other hand, creating an open, autonomous,
>sustainable, networked collective takes a lot more than 5 minutes...
>
>horizontalidad
>boud (IMC Torun and new-imc volunteer)
>
>
>
> > Gregg
> >
> > On Feb 11, 2008 1:38 PM, <toya at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >> hi greg and broke,
> >> i am writing here my personal opinion, from my own experience working with
> >> communities in brasil and all. is great what you are doing, but I have a
> >> question, is a common question when you do this type of work so you know
> >> the people will be left with something concret, not only receive a
> >> trainning and then when folks are gone they have no way to implement why
> >> they have learned..most of the time this happen because of lack of
> >> resources, that only existed during the trainning because the people who
> >> did it was the one who had it with them and after they go home the local
> >> ppl has no way to get such resources...
> >> if they will learn web design without having a server to pratice, or to
> >> upload their work (sites)... how they will use this skill for their
> >> struggle? i know what you meant is that you would teach them how to work
> >> with one of the cms's imc use.. and then leave up to them if they want to
> >> use it or not.
> >> but i would suggest that you first propose to them:
> >>
> >> 1. indymedia network presentation - how is organized, global lists, how to
> >> join them, how a collective is build (new imc process), how the sites are
> >> normally builded, how techs are organized within indymedia network etc.
> >>
> >> 2. independent host services, like linefeed, riseup, noblogs, sarava,
> >> birosca, etc. how they are important and how to contact them...
> >>
> >> 3. basic on web design, how internet works (what is a web server etc)
> >>
> >> maybe doing like this, when you are done with 1, 2, 3, it will be more
> >> clear for them how it all works and how they can use the new skill within
> >> the network of people who works with the same thing and provides support
> >> for it.
> >>
> >> just my personal opinion...
> >> to make sure that after you leave they can move on without you and know
> >> all the options they have... number 1 and 2 are very important for it!
> >> bye bye
> >> toya
> >>> Hi IMC folks,
> >>>
> >>> I think that you raise a very important concern, that we certainly will
> >> be
> >>> in a better position to address when we are with the Kuna. However, I
> >>> think
> >>> we are dealing with a chicken and egg issue here, in that we have been
> >>> asked
> >>> by the Kuna to teach web design to 10 youth from the community. It is
> >> our
> >>> feeling that the Indymedia network is the best interface for the Kuna to
> >>> be
> >>> able to get their message out to the world. They have had difficulty in
> >>> past
> >>> with getting their struggle publicized. In order to be able to offer the
> >>> Indymedia format for them to choose as an option, we would love to have
> >>> your
> >>> assistance in preparing to present this option to them.  We are not in
> >> any
> >>> way suggesting that we would either start the site nor run the site, we
> >>> will
> >>> merely be offering technical assistance and training. The rest is up to
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> Please let us know,
> >>>
> >>> Gregg and Brooke
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 9, 2008 11:30 PM, nick <sarsnic at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I bet it would be an uphill battle to get this imc through the process
> >>>> of joining the network.  People would all be wondering how you could
> >>>> have a consensus decision making process with this group you haven't
> >>>> met yet and wouldn't be able to hold meetings with.  It it could be
> >>>> seen as people in the global north trying to set up an IMC for a group
> >>>> in the global south, instead of providing resources for them to do it
> >>>> themselves.  This is all just my personal opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>> peace,
> >>>> Nick
> >>>>
> >>>> On 09/02/2008, gosofsky at gmail.com <gosofsky at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Submitted by: Gregg Osofsky <gosofsky at gmail.com> on Saturday,
> >> February
> >>>> 9th, 2008 @ 9:35:06 am (-0800)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Client Variables
> >>>>> ----------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HTTP_USER_AGENT:
> >>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.12)
> >>>> Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Online Form Fields
> >>>>> ------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> proposed_imc_name:
> >>>>> kuna
> >>>>>
> >>>>> proposed_imc_url:
> >>>>> kuna.indymedia.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> current_url:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> city:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> state:
> >>>>> Kuna Yala
> >>>>>
> >>>>> country:
> >>>>> Panama
> >>>>>
> >>>>> contact_name:
> >>>>> Gregg Osofsky
> >>>>>
> >>>>> contact_email:
> >>>>> gosofsky at gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> contact_phone:
> >>>>> 917-886-2852
> >>>>>
> >>>>> tech_name:
> >>>>> Gregg Osofsky
> >>>>>
> >>>>> tech_email:
> >>>>> gosofsky at gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> tech_phone:
> >>>>> 917-886-2852
> >>>>>
> >>>>> focus:
> >>>>> regional_focus
> >>>>>
> >>>>> critical_dates:
> >>>>> March 14, 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>> supporting_groups:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> introductory_statement:
> >>>>> I represent a 3-person delegation traveling to the Kuna Yala
> >> territory
> >>>> of Panama to document the struggles facing the Kuna people. We have had
> >>>> contact with the Kuna since 1999, but this is the first effort to
> >>>> connect
> >>>> them with the international community in a substantive way. We intend
> >> to
> >>>> provide training to enable them to build and develop their indymedia
> >> and
> >>>> web
> >>>> presence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> resources:
> >>>>> Audio and video production, web design and production, political
> >>>> organizing, and a fair amount of server space/bandwidth if needed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> outreach:
> >>>>> We have been in communication with members of the Kuna for the past 8
> >>>> years. Furthermore, we have met with UN representatives as well as
> >>>> leaders
> >>>> of several NGOs representing Indigenous peoples.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> identity_makeup:
> >>>>> We have not yet arrived in the Kuna region, but our tour of the
> >> region
> >>>> will take us through many of the various tribal areas and communities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> steps_represent_diversity:
> >>>>> One of the primary goals of our trip is to train the Kuna to develop
> >>>> and
> >>>> produce their own media. In addition to training individuals in
> >>>> audio/video
> >>>> editing, we will teach a group of younger Kuna how to produce and
> >>>> maintain
> >>>> web pages/sites.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> steps_involve_new_workfields:
> >>>>> Much of the training will be with the Kuna youth, both male and
> >>>> female.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> username:
> >>>>> Gregg Osofsky
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> New-imc mailing list. Lista de correo New-imc
> >>> New-imc at lists.indymedia.org
> >>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/new-imc
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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