[New-imc] [Imc-communication] Clarification Venezuela-centro

[Mike Lehman]

ana,
It would be useful for Indymedia Brazil to restate its exact objection 
to the proposal to accept the Venezuela-Centro new-imc proposal. To me 
it wasn't at all clear what the objection was or its basis. In fact, 
what I read from xaba seemed to me as much a concern about a lack of 
communication within the Indymedia Brazil network as it was about the 
structure of the Venezuela-Centro proposal. What xaba wrote follows.

If there is something more specific than this available, could someone 
please repost it so everyone knows what the specific concern about the 
Venezuela-Centro proposal is. Those of us on the imc-communication list 
only have xaba's post to assess the issue.
Mike Lehman
UC IMC

Hello.

I know that this opinion concerning the creation of Indymedia Centre
Venezuela is not consensus of the network Indymedia Brazil, which was not
discussed in any email list open and much less by local collectives.

That opinion is being expressed by only a small group of
people within the network Indymedia Brazil.

Nevertheless, really, the consensus approval by the silence is a problem
and should be discussed, because just being misused the end.

Moreover, the issue of collective Venezuela in need of a discussion and
resolution locally, with the understanding between the collectives, while
that, in accordance with the principles of the network, nothing would
prevent the creation of a new collective self within a country.

One example is the existence of various collective IMC independent of
nationality in the USA and the European countries.

One issue that should be observed is the optimization of resources, that
is, encouraging the use of servers sets and shares of pages and resources
between the collective belonging to a same country.

Abraços.

xaba



ana wrote:
> Hi all, hola a todos, english below
>
> [es]
>
> Mantengo todas las listas en el cc para que todos se den por enterados,
> pero creo que esta discusion deberia estar solo en la lista de
> communication y no en la new-imc.
>
> Por lo que estoy siguiendo de la discusion (con dificultades) es que no ha
> habido un block formal en la lista new-imc para esta solicitud de
> afiliacion desde que fue presentada. El proceso dice que si no hay un
> block en la lista new-imc en 3 dias, la propuesta de afiliacion se
> considera pasada en el grupo new-imc, y deberia ser presentada al resto de
> la red indymedia mediante un email a las listas process y communication
> lists, y discutida en la lista communication, y luego anunciado en ambas
> si no hay blocks ni objeciones, que se da la bienvenida al nuevo grupo
> como un imc. Para esto hay 7 dias pero si hay una discusion larga, y hace
> falta hacer cambios a la propuesta, o hay preguntas que necesitan
> respuesta, entonces esa fecha tope de 7 dias se deja en una especie de
> limbo hasta que todas las preguntas sean contestadas, y entiendo que una
> vez que esas respuestas aparecen en la lista, hace falta otros 7 dias para
> dar tiempo a toda la gente a que las lea y haga mas pregunas si quieren –
> antes de pasarla.
>
> Aunque esta solicitud no ha sido presentada formalmente al resto de la red
> mandandola a esas dos listas globales, brasil se ha enterado de ella y ha
> presentado una objection, entonces pienso que esto sigue el proceso
> normal, simplemente se necesita que se ponga formalmente en la lista
> communication para que todo el mundo pueda dar su opinion, pero parece que
> esto ya esta hecho.
>
> Yo estoy en new imc y tambien ayudo a moderar esa lista. Espero que la
> gente entienda que, despues de esta explicacion, lo semails a new-imc no
> se pasen a la lista porque este asunto ya ha pasado de esa lista/grupo a
> communication, y ahora esta con el resto de la red, y no hace falta mas
> clarificacion por parte de new-imc, creo. Por supuesto miembros del grupo
> new-imc podemos dar nuestra opinion a la lista communication list, que
> tambien es abierta.
>
> Los moderadores de las listas brasileñas pueden decidir si quieren esta
> discussion alli tambienm pero creo que seria mejor tenerla en una sola
> lista.
>
> [en]
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am maintaining all lists in the cc for updating purposes, but I think
> this discussion should continue in the communication list and not the
> new-imc list.
>
> >From what I follow from the discussion(with some difficulty), there has
> been no formal block in the new-imc list for this application since it was
> presented. The process says that if there is no block in 3 days, the
> proposal to join is considered to have passed the new-imc group, and it
> should be then presented to process and communication lists, and discussed
> in communication list, then announced in both if there is no block or
> objection, that the new group is welcomed as a new imc. The deadline for
> this is 7 days but if there is an ongoing discussion and ammendements need
> done or questions need answered, then of course the 7 days deadline is
> left in a kind of limbo until all questions are answered, I understand
> that after those new answers appear on the list, another 7 days need to
> pass  - to give people time to read those new answers and ask further
> questions if they want - before it is passed.
>
> Although this application has not been formally presented to the rest of
> the network by sending it to those global lists, effectively brasil has
> heard of it and has presented an objection, then I think it is being in
> the normal process, it just needs formally put in the communication list
> maybe so that every one can have a look at it and give an opinion.
>
> I am in new imc and I also help moderating that list. I hope people will
> understand that, after this explanation, emails to new-imc will not be
> allowed to the list because the matter has already left that list, it is
> now with the rest of the network, and no further clarification is needed
> from that list I don't think. Of course members of the new-imc group can
> give their opinion in the communication list, which is also open.
>
> The moderators of the brazilian lists  can decide if they want this
> discussion to happen there as well, but it might be better to have it just
> on one list.
>
> ana
>
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