[New-imc] [Imc-israel-editors] New Egypt Indymedia/ Israel

[reven at riseup.net]

Hello everyone,
Just wanted to chime in to add that IMC Israel supports welcoming IMC
Cairo, including without a mention on their list of Indymedia Centers,
with lots of solidarity. Currently IMC Israel is on somewhat of a low
burner, so we didn't discuss specific proposals that were made, leaving
this up to new-imc and Cairo folks to work out. Still, we will keep
following this process and participating as needed.
Ma'a tadhamen (in solidarity),
Rona



> Hi all,
>
> @Bartolomeo, I apologize if my words sounded like they are personally
> targeting you, this wasn´t the intention. I was talking about general
> politics and the differences between doing politics in the North and the
> South.
>
> @Kami, thanks a lot, not only for making what I said much clearer and
> more to the point, but also for making us feel supported. You have no
> idea how important this is for us at this point. The world is looking
> the other way, and the stress levels generated by continuous crackdowns
> among other things are huge. It is good to know someone is watching :)
>
> I spent today thinking of how can we solve this and I remembered that
> when we were discussing the same thing during the IMC-Beirut process, it
> was solved by putting the incomplete list (again I say to my great
> distress and sadness that this has to be done), and include a banner on
> the bottom of the list saying "This list is not complete, please refer
> to palestine.indymedia.org for a complete list of IMCs" (we can put
> indymedia.org or any other since Palestine Indymedia is dead)
>
> Would that be o.k. with people? Because truly and honestly, and I hope I
> have some credibility on this list from my previous work in Indymedia
> and people who know me from the IMC-Network and other activist groups
> worldwide, there is no way we can have a direct link to an Israeli page
> without putting those taking part in the project in great danger and
> shutting down the whole page. We are already taking great risks by what
> we are going to publish.
>
> in solidarity, and patience world out there, in Egypt these days we are
> on high adrenalin surges most of the time,
> Leil-Zahra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> kami at riseup.net escribió:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:53:40PM +0100, Bartolomeo wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Leil-Zahra,
>>>
>>> I was really annoyed about your mail so I did not reply yesterday but
>>> slept a
>>> night to cool down. First, let me make one thing clear: I support your
>>> initiative to help founding IMC Cairo. I think you and we should take
>>> care
>>> that such an IMC is healthy in the sense that it will live on after
>>> supporting
>>> activists from other IMCs leave the region. But nonetheless, it is a
>>> good
>>> starting point and the global Indymedia network should support your
>>> intiative.
>>>
>>> However, I'd like to discuss the topic of the exclusion of IMC Israel
>>> from the
>>> cities list of an upcoming website of IMC Cairo without being insulted
>>> as a
>>> "euro-centristic" activist whose concerns can be ignored because they
>>> endanger
>>> the life of other activists. This is a catch-all which does not help to
>>> create
>>> a basis of mutual friendship and solidarity.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> I agree that discrimination is a hard word and I can understand that it
>>> hurts
>>> you. Mind that I didn't say that I think you _want_ to discriminate IMC
>>> Israel
>>> or that you have anything against the activists participating in it.
>>> But I
>>> still think that an exclusion of IMC Israel from your cities list would
>>> be an
>>> act of discrimination even if IMC Israel agrees to the exclusion.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, it would be a precedent and your referral to the exception
>>> made
>>> for IMC Beirut makes me fear that this could lead to a situation where
>>> IMC A -
>>> with referral to the exceptions from the membership criteria made for
>>> IMC
>>> Beirut and IMC Cairo - wants yet another IMC B to be excluded because
>>> of
>>> resentments in country A against country B. I think the opposite could
>>> be
>>> true: a link to IMC Israel could help diminishing racist prejudices in
>>> Egypt
>>> against everything from Israel - even state-opposing organisations.
>>>
>>> Such theoretical considerations nonwithstanding I see your point that
>>> there is
>>> much hate against Israel in Egypt and that this could endanger the
>>> people
>>> participating in IMC Cairo. To find a compromise, Kami made the
>>> proposal of an
>>> inclusion of IMC Israel in the cities list and a statement on this
>>> topic in
>>> your IMC documents. There might be other compromises like the exclusion
>>> of IMC
>>> Israel for a certain amount of time until the project is better known
>>> in
>>> Egypt. Please take these considerations into account and let us find a
>>> way to
>>> solve the conflict.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think things are getting a bit tense in this discussion. I'm not sure
>> leil-Zahra intended to insult you, but to point you that the situation
>> in
>> Egypt is a bit different than the one we in the North do live. And in
>> this
>> debate, I think it's important to listen the argument that putting some
>> link on a webpage can put people in serious physical danger. It's a
>> situation we are not that used in the country we live in, or at least in
>> a
>> less critical reality, and thus we are not really able to judge this.
>>
>> I would find really hard to see people willing to build an IMC being
>> rejected because they refused to put themselves in danger.
>>
>> We could also maybe come up with a solution that might let some IMC make
>> some little modification with the city list, if and only if the fact
>> that
>> this link appears put them in physical danger, and if they did before
>> have discussions with the concerned IMC, and it did agree.
>>
>> The requirement for an IMC to have this complete city list has been made
>> in a time where there was mainly North IMCs getting set up, and no one
>> did
>> at the moment meet this problem. I guess the situation change a bit now,
>> and we should be able to adapt old rules to be in touch with the current
>> reality of the network and people involved in it.
>>
>> If Israel IMC has no problem wih Cairo IMC hidding their link, I don't
>> see
>> why we should block them.
>>
>> kami.
>>
>>
>
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