[Payment-discuss] a bit overboard?

[nick]

Well, ok I will ask then.  If indymedia were an all-volunteer network
that continued to partner with orgs like Big Noise, Paper Tiger,
Democracy Now, Free Speech TV, etc. would that strike you as gross or
otherwise ethically weird?   I ask because that is the scenario I
would like best of all. People who have any kinda job, including
journalism, coming together in a space dedicated to all-volunteer
journalism called indymedia.  Many on this list have different
conceptions of how things could be ideally, and that is mine.

My film (somadocumentary.com) required an investment of my own money.
If I ever break even on it, it will be in part due to the film
screenings that I set up and promoted through the indymedia network.
I hope I break even and can invest money in another cool project.  I
could see feeling guilty if I doubled my investment and didn't find
ways of giving that back to communities.  But would you say that I
should have something to feel slimey about if I only break even?  Or
if I don't even break even but still charge money for the DVDs?

peace
Nick


On 2/16/07, deva <drdartist at riseup.net> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> Yes, those are my feelings and what I have decided for myself in
> regards to indymedia work. I made no prescription for everyone
> everywhere. Please try not to put words to my mouth. If you are not
> certain what I mean, then you can ask.
>
> I said what I said to give some background on my experience and my
> choices and that I have put those choices into practice in my life,
> and they have been fruitful.
>
> My general criticism is regarding the impulse to get paid in
> indymedia, which is centered in the US. That is what we are
> discussing. We are not talking about the Zapatista, or any other
> effort around the world. I'll remind you that I suggested there be
> payment in indymedia but not in the US.
>
> I am talking about specific circumstances and you are interpreting
> them into a broad general sense and then accusing me of being overly
> broad. In otherwords, your argument is your own internal dialog, not
> a dialog with me.
>
> regards,
> deva
>
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2007, at 5:58 PM, nick wrote:
>
> > Deva wrote:
> >> I could never make money by filming activists and comrades who are
> >> struggling against oppression and then use their activity for my
> >> own gain.
> >
> > Is a Zapatista collective that sells t-shirts with a picture of the
> > woman Zapatista squaring off with the soldier to be chastised for
> > exploiting the woman's struggle?  Is the beehive collective corrupt
> > for portraying the struggles of activists around the world and making
> > money off the art?  Should I be ashamed when someone puts a dollar in
> > our tip jar after my band plays some music that was influenced by
> > Fela?
> >
> > This is verging on saying that not only should indymedia folks not get
> > paid for doing indymedia, that they also should not get paid for doing
> > journalism at all, and perhaps any other form of work (basically all)
> > that involve anyone else being oppressed or struggling.
> >
> >> I absolutely will not make a profit for myself off of the loving
> > labor of others.
> >
> > This is coming awfully close to criticizing others for failure to live
> > up to our own moral purity, and I don't like that.  Some of us have
> > privilege enough to do alot of volunteer work.  In my opinion, we
> > should be using every drop of that privilege to fight oppression. But
> > it is not anti-oppressive to be comparing other activists to ourselves
> > in this manner.  And besides, from everything I have read so far,
> > Sascha himself has never taken the salary he was allotted, so he too
> > has not profitted "off the loving labor of others."
> >
> > I am of the non-payment camp in general, but this sort of criticism
> > really turns me off, especially for failing to include a discussion
> > about privilege.
> >
> > Vlax from Oaxaca is here in Houston and he is also basically in the
> > non-payment camp, but he was mentioning that when media activists in
> > Oaxaca sell a story to FSRN it manages to take the place of several
> > weeks of work that they could do locally.
> >
> > If we were at least limiting these criticisms to apply to those of us
> > who have enough money to buy an occasional plane ticket, or something,
> > then I wouldn't be so alarmed by the direction of this discussion.
> >
> > Cat wrote:
> >> i can't imagine ever trying to capitalize on the courage and
> > sacrifices of the people whom i am usually filming. it's a gross
> > thought.
> >
> > I think connecting this with the idea of "gross" is inappropriate.  In
> > conjunction with my workshop (nickcooper.com/antipowerworkshop.htm) I
> > have studied how labelling things as disgusting has been used
> > throughout the history of oppression, so seeing that word here really
> > caught my attention.  I don't think of UCIMC folks as "gross."
> >
> > peace,
> > Nick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Payment-discuss mailing list
> > Payment-discuss at lists.indymedia.org
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/payment-discuss
>
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>


-- 
peace,
Nick
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nickcooper.com/antipowerworkshop.htm