[Payment-discuss] [Fwd: Re: after the consulta]

[Jay]

Hi,

My interest in our working together to develop some
kind of declaration/statement about payment in the
network (after the consulta happens, and after the
resulting conversation) is not just to have a document
that can guide IMCs in developing their own policies
toward money, but more for the benefit we'll find as a
network in the process of committing to work through
polarizing issues in a straightforward, honest but
ultimately useful manner.  I'm not intrested in our
casting aside our differences and coming to some
lovey-dovey agreement full of hugs and moonbeams, but
rather in finding a way to engage each other that
enhances the good work we do, while we're still all
able to acknowledge our substantial, and legitimate,
disagreements.  
 
We can continue to tear at each other when we
disagree, which ultimately serves to frustrate and
weaken us, or we can take what seems to me to be an
honestly radical leap forward by figuring out how not
to diminish our good work by wasting time and energy
on ideological in-fighting, paranoia and distrust. 
That is the trap that so many positive projects have
fallen into, and, while it's a possible future for us
if we're not careful, I certainly don't think
Indymedia is destined to follow the same path.

What this means to me is that we would challenge
ourselves, as people invested in Indymedia's goals but
with legitimate disagreement about ways certain IMCs
operate, to do the hard work of finding some place of
common understanding.  That's not as easy as fighting
each other, it's not the same thing as a "compromise,"
and wouldn't require us to dilute our passion or
ignore our principles.  

I think the greatest threat to us here isn't the fact
that IMCs have vastly different approaches to money,
but rather that we will continue to give in to the
instinct to tear at each other destructively rather
than find a way, despite our disagreements, to
strengthen our work.      

Jay 

dan blah wrote:
>> _______________________________________________
Payment-discuss
>> mailing list Payment-discuss at lists.indymedia.org 
>>
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/payment-discuss
>> 
> from an earlier email from jay:
> 
> I also think we're going to do things differently
here in the fact 
> that at some point, though maybe quite in the
future, we'd like to 
> come up with some kind of
agreement/proposal/document that can help 
> form Indymedia's formal stance on money and payment.
 I'm not saying
> we're going to add to the principles of unity, but
we've talked about
>  working toward some kind of document and/or
agreement that is 
> positive and curative, rather than just letting this
issue twist 
> around and around until we all get twisted.  If we
go that route, the
>  list facilitatiors and others will try to be active
inviting
> positive comments that move us forward, hoping to
help us get
> somewhere reasonable.
> 
> after compiling the networks responses from the
consulta i think this
>  would be the next goal.
> 
I have to say that I don't share this view (that we
should make it our
goal to adopt a formal stance on money and payment).

It seems to me that opinions are very polarised, and
that if we were to
adopt any stance other than "Indymedia is agnostic",
that would severely
alienate some important parts of the network. I may
not agree with the
way some other IMCs organise themselves, but I
wouldn't want to say that
they are out of step with Indymedia's stance. Nor
would I want our
stance (that of my local IMC) to be declared out of
step.

I'm willing to wait and see what happens; after all,
that's why I'm
here. But I was dubious about this objective when the
formation of this
list was announced, and nothing I've seen since I've
been reading the
list has changed my mind (so far).

I would be happy to be proved wrong.

-- 
Jack.