[Sfbay-web] Re: [Sfbay-video] video pages on Indybay proposal
mark at indymedia.org
Mon Mar 14 11:14:40 PST 2005
Sounds good to me. Hopefully people can bring the proposal to
the website meeting next month.
i think this stuff could all be added to the "indymedia"
category of the indybay site as newswire posts and features
(features are usually short "blurbs" but can also be a full page
). the video overview page could be set up as an archived
feature page (this gives you versioning--you can see previous
versions of the page); most of the subsidiary pages could be
newswire posts so that comments are allowed. as long as there
is a left-column or top-bar link to the video overview page, all
the individual pages should be easy to find.
one thing that should be linked to is this listing of upcoming
video screenings from the indybay calendar --
which by the way i don't think has the most readable design,
someone should probably tweak the CSS.
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:58:18 -0800, Jeff wrote:
> OK ... awesome discussion going here ... so, yes, there is already a great
> videos page on indybay.org and I never meant to suggest that we do
> anything to downplay that ... I'm talking about the self-publishing page
> under the "videos" link that Karen also points out ... here:
> and, there is a lot of awesome stuff there ... including some edited
> things that do reflect some past Indybay collaborations but these are just
> very hard to find. It is essentially a big list. Big lists are great and
> they are one of the things that the web does well ... but, they don't
> always appeal to all types of web visitors ... they are a'bit intimidating
> and items that viewers liked quickly lost and moved into webland obscurity
> ... but, like I said, they are great, because everything is there ... some
> visitors don't like to be razzle-dazzled they just want to see what is
> there, and if it is in a big chronoligical list for them - so much the
> better ... and of course, we can't downplay the self-publishing aspect of
> this page (which is a cool thing about indymedia in general and kind of
> what indymedia is known for - the less-censored posting and open dialogue
> and all that ... the free forum for community media that is D.I.Y.- this
> is what indymedia is all about ...
> Also, there is another link in the top/travelling menu bar of the indybay
> site that is called
> "TV" ... and it goes to the VAN site (a VAN site that is expensive and
> might disappear someday) ... but, this is cool too ... the text has been
> updated, there are some nice photos there ... some videos to watch
> (although this is a little static, more video segments from street level
> could circulate through there ... anyway ... ) it's looking great ... and
> it's on cabble access, at the ATA ... all that ...
> But, the big problem with all of this as it is, in a nutshell, is that
> none of it communicates very well with any of the other parts ... and none
> of the big, collaborative videos (actual ones that are maybe even produced
> by long time indymedier's in the indybay space) none of these projects are
> highlighted on the indybay space at all ... want to learn about Miami
> Model? you probably will get frustrated searching around the indybay site
> and will end up at another site ... want to watch Jino's trailer for We
> Interrupt this empire or watch my 5-minute version, again you will have a
> difficult time navigating to these items from the homepage of indymedia as
> it is now ... Or, what if you are a visitor to Street Level TV (through
> the VAN site) and you'd like to see the less-censored big page of videos
> on Indybay or to learn if Newsreal (another IMC video project) is still
> going ... or to find out other aspects of indybay video or of the larger
> IMC picture as related to video - you don't get any of this from those
> pages as they are now ... it says on the SLTV pages (as textual links)
> that they (SLTV) are associated with VAN and Indybay ... so, the viewer
> can click on these and keep learning more, but they will be several clicks
> and searches into indybay before they find out anything about the Newsreal
> in Boulder that is calling for submissions right now ... if you go to the
> indybay site (from Street Level) before clicking around on the pages on
> the VAN site, you will also probably never know or find any of the SLTV
> video segments that are online ... you will scroll down the big list of
> videos on the indybay site, watch some of them, and then scroll around for
> more options, you will find none, there is no navigation that goes
> anywhere else ... so, you go back to "TV" and you go back to the SLTV
> pages on the VAN site ... you see what I'm saying ... so, what is missing
> besides any navigability is any reference to anything you might remember
> and/or very few suggestions as to how to get videos or hold a screening or
> anything else ... so, what do you do? ... EMAIL ... and since no questions
> have been addressed on the site, no limits set, no concrete suggestions
> ... you have to EMAIL about everything related to video and you feel OK to
> ask just about anything, because nothing has really been answered on the
> site ... you see what I'm saying ... and, like Ali brings up, there is not
> very much exciting (in terms of layout or design or visual cues) that
> makes you think, "this is special, I want to tell my friends to go and
> watch this ____________ video" ... a visitor might be excited by the
> sheer volume of videos there and by the fact that they are posted
> frequently ... but, many visitors really need something stimulating and
> visually pleasing ... to really feel like they have something appeal to
> both hemishperes ... etc. ... so, knowing this - I think the Indybay site
> could have a main directory "Video" ... and from this, the visitor could
> go to:
> 1.) The self-publishing page as it is now (with maybe a little
> navigability added to it - links to SLTV, to Newsreal and to "Indybay
> Collaborative Projects and Special Features" page ... whatever, I can't
> seem to phrase it right now ... )
> 2.) A section on Indybay about Street Level TV, maybe what is on VAN now,
> but with the look and feel of Indybay overall ... but, keeping the tables
> and content of the street level designers, also this depends on they feel
> about it ... but, I think it would be great as a relatively independent
> set of a few self-managed pages by and about SLTV on the Indybay site ...
> (this would also have navigation back to other IMC video pages and
> projects ... i.e. the big self-publishing page and maybe the newsreal page
> ... that looks like this:
> 3.) the Newsreel page? ... this is looking like a front for FSTV (a
> little) so some people might have an issue with the "not-in-our-name"
> types, or with the self-congratulating, faux-commy, liberal, middle-class
> people who think they really know what is going to appeal to the "American
> people." types that also maybe tend to love centralised control while
> pretending to be all down with anarchists ... ... but, whatever, for now,
> let's assume all is good with Newsreal because it seems to be the only
> thing that is linked off of the main Indymedia sight that is not indybay
> or VAN already ... So, let's hope they keep going and then, maybe a
> visitor to the indybay "videos" page should maybe be able to find out
> about other IMC video stuff and for now, let's Newsreal is it ... OK, and
> 4.) a "Collaborative Projects" or "Indybay Special Features" page ...
> something like that ... some subtext can let visitors know that this page
> features videos produced by Indybayers working in collaboration or they
> represent special projects and works by Indybayers themselvels ... and,
> this would be the more designed page with jpegs, related links and text
> and all that ... I'm thinking a segment from Miami Model, some portions of
> We Interrupt, other segments that people know about ... you cathch my
> drift ... War Pigs, Jino's Lord of the rings of free trade, Angelo's Fed
> Up ... something hot and new from the forest video producers ... whatver
> ... the page could be designed to include videos there that reflect a
> range of issues and also some varied styles and what not ... also, this
> could also lead people to learn more about a range of issues ... Ok, but,
> so, these would kind of stay the way they are for decent periods of time
> and also, get new videos posted at the top every so often ... but, the
> point is, this would be the page on Indybay, that really displays the
> videos well, keeps the visitor wanting to come back ... and a place where
> you feel like there is some consistency and you can tell people about it
> and all of that ...
> 5.) A GET INVOLVED/RESOURCES SECTION - this section must not create false
> expectations (i.e. that we have equipment to loan out to everyone that
> comes around or that we really have the personel to tape people's music
> shows ... or that we can donate free videos to anything that poses as a
> cause or a benefit ... or that we employ people and have careers available
> ... ) so, it can (in a noncommercial way ... esp since most of the video
> makers and distributors like AK Press are mostly always on the verge of
> financial ruin ... usually in debt ... so, since no one is really getting
> rich, can we let ourselves survive and not shoot ourselves in the foot ...
> can't we point to worker-owned, anarchist collectives like AK press and
> feel like we are in line with our guidelines ...? Anyway, some resources
> subheadings (and they do need to be current, not like the old stuff on VAN
> I admint ... but, a little more streamlined, current and all that ... but
> ... some subheadings I can imagine are:
> A.) Get and Screen Videos yourself ... indicate that we don't have free
> videos to give away, but, if they contact the right sources (that we
> should link to) they can find and acquire videos without bugging any of us
> ... Showdown in Seattle, Breaking the Bank, Miami Model ... We Interrupt
> This Emire ... these can all safely be called IMC video collaborations ...
> where can I get them? ... I'd like to find out without leaving the Indybay
> site or without HAVING TO EMAIL ... so, to address Karen's concern about
> remaining non-commercial, I think we don't have to worry because anyone
> that gets involved with video the way we do it, will also spend all their
> money and/or go into actual debt as a result of their involvement ... all
> the video people who have been involved with Indymedia video projects did
> so out of their own pocket (and some are deeper then others) ... and, most
> incurred more debt than personal profit from the video activities ... so,
> in other words, since there has yet to be real commercial value in
> indyvideo productions, there is no need to worry about it ... and, that
> goes for distributors like AK press as well - until we learn that they are
> really raking in the dough and we catch Ramsey driving around in a topless
> beamer ... why, should we spite ourselves and not tell website visitors
> where they can actually get our videos without ... you guessed it ...
> HAVING TO EMAIL ... ? ... so, the "Do You Own Benefit Screening" or
> whatever section should list some videos and link to where you can get
> them, it should include a brief how-to, and maybe list and link to some
> venues (again mostly non-commercial like the ATA ... etc.) ...
> B.) Make Your Own Videos / Post Your Videos Here ... this section will
> also cut down on the questions when we can point to a page that explains
> briefly that we don't really have extra decks and resources lying around
> for people to party with ... but, it could infact point them to some
> valuable resources in the community and online for people who really want
> to make the personal sacrifices and get involved with video production ...
> we should be able to help them right there on the website ... links to
> BAVC, FAF, ATA, PAPERTIGER TV and so on ... VIDEO WITNESSING TIPS ...
> RELEVANT LINKS ... etc ... these types of things should just be there and
> one should be able to get to them from the main "video" directory from the
> homepage of indybay ... directions on how to post to Indybay yourself (a
> note that you should wait before trying to repost ... and to refresh the
> page you posted to might also alleviate the double postings because people
> get tired of waiting, or don't know that they have already posted ... etc.
> ... more resources and tips and so on ...
> OK, that's what I'm talking about and I'm sure that Ali, myself and others
> can do it together in a way that will at least be acceptable (if not
> pleasing) to the web and/or video committees of indybay as they now exist
> ... so, does, that help maybe address some of the concerns about going all
> hyper-commercial and also maybe the need to do this because the VAN site
> might not exist as it is forever ... it might be going away ... so, it
> would be a shame to see the links and resources disappear ... ... etc. ...
> plus, it could actually be a draw, an attraction ... a reason to fund
> indybay more ... etc. ... peace out, Jeff T.
> Just to be more specific about finding video on the site, if you click on
> the video link just above the newswire on indybay.org (righthand column,
> that takes you to all the videos on the site. You can also click on the
> photo link to get all the photos.
> I am not sure that I would be into having the competitive aspect of a
> "video of the week"-type thing.
> aLso, there is something in the points of unity that says we are
> non-commercial, so we might have to change that.
> > This is a great idea. I think that the type of project that jeff is
> > describing would be best accomplished by using indymedia technology.
> > We can direct all video files that are uploaded to the newswire to this
> > page. Similar to our categories. This way people would be able to
> > access all the video easily, This is already possible to do through
> > search but doing it like this can provide interesting possibilities.
> > Such as a rating system where users would be able to rate videos
> > uploaded and the highest rated one would become the video of the week.
> > maybe even some software could be written that would make a jpeg slide
> > show from the video to be displayed on the page. This would bring
> > people to the site on a regular basis.
> > Do people know about www.indytorrents.org? this is a project initiated
> > by portland IMC, extremely prolific videomakers. They have been
> > uploading torrent files of their videos for a while now. We could add
> > torrent tracker to the page. Torrent technology is a real interesting
> > way of sharing network resources efficiently way across the internet.
> > Videos. I have been saying that i would like to design a merchandise
> > page and propose it to the group. Videos would surely be a part of
> > this. I guess it's time for me to actually do it. Anyone want to help?
> > The skillshare resources are also an excellent idea.
> > ali
> > On Mar 12, 2005, at 5:10 PM, mark burdett wrote:
> >> i would value having one or more video editors for the site. both to
> >> offer educational/tutorial material that isn't several years out of
> >> date and serve as a librarian for the video content we have. as well
> >> as help direct newcomers to ongoing projects they can get involved
> >> with.
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