[www-editoriales] Re: [www-features] PROPOSAL VENEZUELA: Popular Assemblies call for Revolution within the Revolution

Anarcho Babe anarchobabe at fempages.org
Thu Sep 2 14:58:52 PDT 2004


Well, we have got politicians here from e.g. the socialist party who travel 
to Venezuela to blind the people here that a "revolution via voting" would 
be possible and exploit Chavez and the Bolivarian revolution that way. Not 
to say that the same politicians - and other leaders of this party called 
locally several times the police to arrest protesters when there was e.g. 
the Poll Tax Riot or last years anti-war protests.

It would be nice if people in Venezuela understand, too, that some (lefty) 
politicians try to lure disillusioned potential voters back into reformist 
representative parliamentary politics by giving Chavez as an example and 
glorifying him and his politics.

As about consenus in the proposing collective; I am not sure if every 
proposal here is proposed via consensus in an indymedia collective; I was 
not aware that this would be a fundamental demand to make a feature 
proposal as it seemed that individuals were able to put in proposals, too.

Have never really asked the local collectives here before for a consenus 
for a feature, but don't think there would have been a problem though, but 
would still be interested if that is an underlying condition for proposing 
features?

ciao Ulla



On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT), César Gerena <gerenapr at riseup.net> 
wrote:

> Ask yourself the intentions of a feature that does not even had consensus
> in brasil colletive...
>
> chevron feature is not just info to pass on, the editorial opinions, the
> ideological opinions are not shared by the majority of comrades that have
> expressed here.
>
> no superstars, no gods, no personal agendas.
>
> solidaridad plena.
> G
>
>> forgive me to be stupid but can one person explain once what's the
>> problem here?
>>
>>
>> people in venezuela had choise between capitalists and chavez, is that
>> democratic than? so why there can not be critic on cahvez than: is he
>> something more than human than, a superstar without faults, a hero,
>> somekind of GOD?
>>
>>
>> getting ennoyed by this discussion...
>>
>>
>> greetings, guidoke
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 23:19, César Gerena wrote:
>>> [en]
>>>
>>> The info in the microsoft chevron feature is good, but the opinions and
>>> editorial lines are not and does not reflects the opinion of many, 
>>> thats
>>> been clearly expressed here. There is no consensus for it. The new
>>> proposed feature is vital information of the process the social
>>> movements
>>> are calling for a change a profundization of the process and rebeling
>>> against government's bureaucracy and corruption.
>>>
>>> [es]
>>>
>>> La información en el destaque de chevron y microsoft es buena, pero las
>>> opiniones editoriales no lo son y no representan el sentir de la
>>> mayoria,
>>> eso ha sido claramente expresado aquí. La nueva propuesta contiene 
>>> buena
>>> y
>>> vital información para analizar el proceso en el que los movimientos
>>> sociales claman por un cambio y profundización del proceso bolivariano 
>>> y
>>> su rebelión contra la burocracia y corrupción en el gobierno.
>>>
>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>
>>> GerenaPR
>>>
>>> > [en]
>>> > i believe the best would be like marcelo said - i think it was him -
>>> to
>>> > have both up..not one with a link to another..specially cuz one is
>>> about
>>> > the social moviments and the other is about the government work
>>> > [pt]
>>> > eu acredito que o melhor seria como o marcelo disse - eu acho q foi
>>> ele -
>>> > ter os dois no site.. nao apenas um com um link para o
>>> > outro..especialmente porque um eh sobre os movimentos populares e
>>> outro
>>> > sobre o trabalho do governo
>>> > ciao
>>> > toya
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> [en]
>>> >>
>>> >> We support this feature, critic, analitical, not reactionary, not
>>> with
>>> >> personal agendas.
>>> >>
>>> >> [es]
>>> >>
>>> >> Apoyamos este destaque, critico, analítico, no reaccionario, sin
>>> agendas
>>> >> personales.
>>> >>
>>> >> Salud y subversiones.
>>> >>
>>> >> GerenaPR
>>> >>
>>> >>> [castellano bellow]
>>> >>> [english]
>>> >>> Trying to reach a consensus, From Venezuela we propose the 
>>> following
>>> >>> article
>>> >>> as feature: "Popular Assemblies Call For Revolution Within the
>>> >>> Revolution".
>>> >>> it hasn't been translated, but it talks about the popular 
>>> assemblies
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> are taking place around different parts of the country rebeling
>>> against
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> "revolutionary bureaucracy imposed by certain parties.
>>> >>> check out:
>>> >>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> [castellano]
>>> >>> Para tratar de llegar a un consenso, desde Venezuela proponemos el
>>> >>> siguiente
>>> >>> articulo para un feautre en la global: "Asambleas Populares 
>>> Plantean
>>> >>> Revolucion dentro de la Revolucion"
>>> >>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> falta traducirlo al inglés, pero creemos que es crucial que se
>>> difunda,
>>> >>> en
>>> >>> todo caso, lo que pueblo está organizando en rebelión contra las
>>> >>> partidocracias "revolucionarias" que quieren dominarlo todo.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> saludos
>>> >>> marcelo
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> A number of comrades have raised criticisms of me for posting the
>>> >>>> feature "Venezuela: Between Empire and Revolution" without
>>> consensus.
>>> >>>> I cannot change the past but I would at least like to review my
>>> >>>> account
>>> >>>> of what happened...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Aug 11
>>> >>>> - Proposal sent to the list, written by Venezuelan comrades
>>> >>>> - Evan raised concern that feature seemed pro-Chavez in places,
>>> citing
>>> >>>> a particular sentence which was removed from the final version.
>>> Also
>>> >>>> claimed the proposal came from "English-speaking" world
>>> >>>> - bb pointed out that feature came from Venezuela, and deferred to
>>> >>>> them
>>> >>>> to answer concerns
>>> >>>> Aug 12
>>> >>>> - marcelo posted to list explaining their positions, and 
>>> expressing
>>> an
>>> >>>> urgent need to have the feature posted, "emergency situation," 
>>> etc.
>>> -
>>> >>>> libertario posted stock critique of chavez, did not address 
>>> feature
>>> >>>> per
>>> >>>> se - deva demands that feature be posted "immediately"
>>> >>>> - jeppe urged collective to post feature "today" and forwarded
>>> >>>> translation of it to frech speaking lists.
>>> >>>> - ekes said feature should go up "as soon as possible"
>>> >>>> - bb agreed that feature should go up asap and offered to make
>>> posting
>>> >>>> with modification of sentence pointed out by Evan
>>> >>>> - deva wrote that disputed sentence should stay in
>>> >>>> - ekes proposed links to add to story
>>> >>>> - felipecas disagrees, says it should include criticisms of chavez
>>> -
>>> >>>> marcelo request "urgent clearance" for feature to go up, citing
>>> >>>> "emergency situation" imminent, possibility of right-wing coup and
>>> >>>> violence
>>> >>>> - boud suggests additional links.  some, but not all, make it into
>>> >>>> final draft
>>> >>>> - bb asks collective status on feature, whether it may go up or 
>>> not
>>> -
>>> >>>> cesar gerena expresses support for feature
>>> >>>> - felipecas makes counter proposal (co-written by toya & pablo)
>>> >>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/www-features/2004- 
>>> August/0812-q8.html
>>> >>>> - deva rejects brasil proposal
>>> >>>> - cesar gerena also criticises brasil proposal, supports
>>> >>>> venezuela-written proposal
>>> >>>> - bb makes the call to post original feature, cites sense of
>>> urgency.
>>> >>>> offers to immediately pull it if anyone chooses to block
>>> >>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/www-features/2004- 
>>> August/0812-a0.html
>>> >>>> - felipecas acknowledges posting of original feature "with 
>>> changes"
>>> >>>> made by bb. "it is better than the other." and "this is a
>>> controversal
>>> >>>> topic and I hope nobody got angry with this confusion."
>>> >>>> - pablo agrees that posted feature is "more balanced and less
>>> >>>> chavista"
>>> >>>> but proposes additional links be added.
>>> >>>> Fri Aug 13
>>> >>>> - pina adds proposed links to feature
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> the discussion opens up again at this point.  disagreements and
>>> >>>> miscommunications still exist but no one asks for it to be taken
>>> down,
>>> >>>> and it is not until some time later, when it is far too late, that
>>> >>>> anyone says i did anything wrong.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> consensus is not always clear, especially when dealing with what
>>> feels
>>> >>>> like an urgent situation.  i agree process was not perfect, but it
>>> >>>> rarely is.  i am not the first to post a feature because it seems
>>> many
>>> >>>> people are demanding it, with the clause that it can be taken down
>>> if
>>> >>>> anyone raises an objection.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> all i can say is i did the best i could with what i knew at the
>>> time.
>>> >>>> i would appreciate it if others expressed how they feel about 
>>> this,
>>> as
>>> >>>> i'm feeling rather isolated at this moment.  perhaps it is
>>> deserved, i
>>> >>>> don't know...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> bb
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> www-features mailing list
>>> >>> www-features at lists.indymedia.org
>>> >>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/www-features
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> www-editoriales mailing list
>>> >> www-editoriales at lists.indymedia.org
>>> >> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/www-editoriales
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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