[www-editoriales] Re: [www-features] Re: feature proposal : Venezuela Libre

guido at stopimperialism.be guido at stopimperialism.be
Tue Sep 7 15:01:42 PDT 2004 

"if a meeting is needed to pass this feature and to clear the process"


this is not said anyware, all what people here want to do is(if I
understood well) is having a feature about which there is a concensus and
supporting the people of Venezuela.


"then
>> remove inmediatedly texaco venezuela's feature that went up while being
>> in
>> discussion and without consensus."




sorry:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/www-features/2004-September/0906-z7.html


see you at the irc-meeting,


greetings, guidoke





> [en]***this opinion is from comrade rao from pr imc using my email
> account.
>
> gerenapr.
>
> [es]****esta opinion es del compa rao de cmi puerto rico usando mi cuenta
> de correo.
>
> gerenapr
>
>> [es]
>>
>> si una reunion es necesaria para pasar el destaque de venezuela y
>> aclarar
>> este proceso centralizado en unos pocos entonces el desatque de texaco
>> debe ser removido ahora y cuanto antes en lo que se discute esto. si no,
>> entonces debe subir la propuesta de los movimientos sociales de
>> venezuela
>> debe subir tan pronto consenso sea acordado, y no vemos por que se debe
>> retrasar mas.
>>
>> esto no es cuestion de promover ninguna ideologia, si alguien esta
>> arrepentido de colaborar para la cobertura del referendo, pues no se
>> queje, nadie le obligo, esto es voluntario.... ese grupo pequeño que
>> intenta imponer maneras de... pensar?? no representa los principios de
>> cmi.
>>
>> ni chavistas ni anarco indisciplina.
>>
>> salud y justicia
>>
>> rao pr
>>
>>
>> [en]
>> if a meeting is needed to pass this feature and to clear the process
>> then
>> remove inmediatedly texaco venezuela's feature that went up while being
>> in
>> discussion and without consensus. if not, then the social movements
>> feature should go up as soon as a consensus is reach, and i dont see any
>> reason why not.
>>
>> this is not about promoting any ideology, if you are sad because of you
>> voluntary help during the referendum coverage, no one asked for it, it
>> is
>> voluntary... such people is the tiny group trying to impose ways of...
>> thinking? dont represent imc purpose.
>>
>> not chavistas nor anarco indiscipline.
>>
>> rao pr
>>
>>> I thought we had agreed on having an IRC meeting instead of bullying
>>> through this feature via submission, because that is not consenus
>>> either,
>>> that's Chavistas stupidity!
>>>
>>> (My god, why did I ever stay awake to report the bloody fu****g
>>> referendum
>>> in Venezuela for such people!!!)
>>>
>>> Apart from that we can continue arguing for another month: see BBC
>>> report:
>>> "Venezuela delays local elections"
>>> "Officials are blaming technical difficulties in organising the vote
>>> which
>>> will now be held on 31 October. "
>>>
>>> So if your aim is to make another election special promoting the
>>> Chavistas,
>>> it might be even good for you to wait.
>>>
>>> yours in rebellion!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:09:24 -0700 (PDT), <guido at stopimperialism.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> is there please just somebody who can send this proposal so that
>>>> within
>>>> six-seven_eight hours from now it can be standing on the global page
>>>> if
>>>> there is consensus about it?
>>>>
>>>> greetings, guidoke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [es]
>>>>>
>>>>> saludos a todos. creemos que hay una propuesta clara,
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/ con videos de las
>>>>> exigencias
>>>>> de los movimientos sociales para la profunidazion del proceso
>>>>> bolivariano.
>>>>>
>>>>> enfoquemosnos en aclarar los procesos, dar mas participacion a cmis
>>>>> latinos y no permitamos imposiciones de grupos especificos.
>>>>>
>>>>> [en]
>>>>>
>>>>> hi all. we believe that already exists a concrete proposal with
>>>>> videos
>>>>> about what social movements are demanding of the bolivarian process.
>>>>>
>>>>> lets focus and stop arguing stupidities, we have to clear the
>>>>> process,
>>>>> decentralize it and not allow impossitions of certain groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> salud
>>>>>
>>>>> rao pr
>>>>>
>>>>>> [es]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya estamos de acuerdo en que lo centralizado del proceso hay que
>>>>>> cambiarlo. Debemos reunirnos en irc. Ahora por favor, permitan, en
>>>>>> vez
>>>>>> de
>>>>>> continuar discutiendo lo que ya estamos de acuerdo, subir las
>>>>>> noticias
>>>>>> que
>>>>>> nos llegan desde Venezuela, no de ningún otro lugar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> La justicia tardía no es justicia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GerenaPR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [en]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We alrdeady know and agree about this centralized process and that
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be changed. We should program a meeting in IRC. Now, please, decide,
>>>>>> instead of talking of what is already known, to put up the news that
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> have directly from venezuela not other place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Late justice is not justice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GerenaPR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [es]
>>>>>>> i totally agree we need more ppl with acess to the admin...
>>>>>>> specially cuz we already have the texaco AND the referendum
>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> without consensus... i agree with the others here, we should hold a
>>>>>>> meeting on irc and decide about process AND about login to the
>>>>>>> admin
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> ciao
>>>>>>> toya
>>>>>>> [portunhol]
>>>>>>> yo concuerdo plenamente hay que tener mas gente con accesso a la
>>>>>>> admin...
>>>>>>> especialmente porque nosotros ya tenemos el editorial de texaco Y
>>>>>>> el
>>>>>>> editorial del referendo subidos a global sin consensos...yo
>>>>>>> concordo
>>>>>>> con
>>>>>>> otra gente de aca, hay q hacer una reunion en el irc y decidir
>>>>>>> sobre
>>>>>>> un
>>>>>>> processo Y sobre accesso a la admin
>>>>>>> ciao
>>>>>>> toya
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [es]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hay que aclarar los procesos ciertamente y da racceso a admin a
>>>>>>>> representantes de colectivos CMI, esto es muy centrlizado y no es
>>>>>>>> aceptable. Ya subió a global el editorial sin consenso de texaco
>>>>>>>> y
>>>>>>>> venezuela. Estamos esperando que por favor hagan consenso y suban
>>>>>>>> cuanto
>>>>>>>> antes las noticias y videos que nos llegan de las asambleas
>>>>>>>> populares
>>>>>>>> en
>>>>>>>> Venezuela.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Solidaridad.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [en]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have to clear this process and give equal access to members of
>>>>>>>> different IMC, this is too centralized and that is inacceptable.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> texaco editorial went up without consensus and lies. We are
>>>>>>>> waiting
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> clear the feature with video of what the social movements are
>>>>>>>> asking
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the process , still waiting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Solidaridad.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gerenapr
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hi bb,
>>>>>>>>> hold on a sec...first of all, my complain in here is how the
>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> are having in this list is mess up.... i know you worked on the
>>>>>>>>> referendum
>>>>>>>>> features modifying it to try to reach a consensus..it is an
>>>>>>>>> apreciated
>>>>>>>>> act
>>>>>>>>> of yours but even so that wanst a consensus on it...sorry bout
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> cant really tell you that after it was mofidying everyone said ok
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> to go  now ..cuz some ppl were still having issues about that...
>>>>>>>>> also, i am not intresting in asking ppl to leave cuz they put up
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> features without consensus..or anything like that... i am
>>>>>>>>> intresting
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> build here a good process for us to decided on our features so
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>>> of thing doesnt happen again... i believe everyone who is in here
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same intention, so why not try to create a good way to work
>>>>>>>>> together???
>>>>>>>>> what i am critizing in here is that for one situation we had one
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> dealing with it and for other we have a diferent way....
>>>>>>>>> and we are talking here about two really simulars situations...
>>>>>>>>> anda gain, i would like to know how is the texaco features
>>>>>>>>> ofending
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> social moviments in venezuela??
>>>>>>>>> ciao
>>>>>>>>> toya
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, I see here a contradiction process ... we just had the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> situation..a debate about a features with strong positions..and
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> situation the features went up without consensus ..... but now,
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> are facing a simular one the solution is to not put it up cuz
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> dont
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> a consensus...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Toya, I have a really hard time engaging with you on this,
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> (and pretty much everyone else on this list) have refused to
>>>>>>>>>> engage
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>> spent hours going through the archives and compiling a summary
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> entire sequence of events that led to the posting of the first
>>>>>>>>>> feature,
>>>>>>>>>> and only one person in the collective gave any response.  and
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> bring this up again as though i had never written anything!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And what do you mean?  the second feature did go up!  the one
>>>>>>>>>> venezuelan
>>>>>>>>>> on the list WANTED the information about Microsoft/Chevron to go
>>>>>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> just wanted it to be done in a way that at the same time did not
>>>>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>>>>> social movements, which is what the first proposal basically
>>>>>>>>>> did.
>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> opinion this conflict was resolved beautifully well, though it
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the last week or so I have really wanted to quit this
>>>>>>>>>> collective,
>>>>>>>>>> because this notion that I violated consensus on the first
>>>>>>>>>> proposal
>>>>>>>>>> continues to be mentioned, but not really discussed.  Any time I
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> tried to open a discussion about it I have been totally ignored,
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>> private and public emails.  To me the accusation is VERY
>>>>>>>>>> serious.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is true I should be held accountable in some way, even asked to
>>>>>>>>>> leave.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> it is not true, then it is very serious that people are making a
>>>>>>>>>> false
>>>>>>>>>> accusation.  So which is it?  I personally am extremely upset
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> people on this list continue ahead pretending there is no
>>>>>>>>>> problem,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> maybe in that sense Toya, we are in agreement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is only my commitment to reporting events such as the recent
>>>>>>>>>> massacre
>>>>>>>>>> in Guatemala that keeps me from leaving this list.  I try to
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> that, no matter how frustrated I may become, my frustration is
>>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> comparison with the struggles against injustice that are taking
>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> over the world.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> solid., bb
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> www-features mailing list
>>>>>>>>> www-features at lists.indymedia.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/www-features
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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