[www-editoriales] Re: [www-features] Re: feature proposal : Venezuela Libre

Tue Sep 7 14:20:48 PDT 2004

I thought we had agreed on having an IRC meeting instead of bullying 
through this feature via submission, because that is not consenus either, 
that's Chavistas stupidity!

(My god, why did I ever stay awake to report the bloody fu****g referendum 
in Venezuela for such people!!!)

Apart from that we can continue arguing for another month: see BBC report: 
"Venezuela delays local elections"
"Officials are blaming technical difficulties in organising the vote which 
will now be held on 31 October. "

So if your aim is to make another election special promoting the Chavistas, 
it might be even good for you to wait.

yours in rebellion!

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:09:24 -0700 (PDT), <guido at stopimperialism.be> wrote:

> hi,
>
> is there please just somebody who can send this proposal so that within 
> six-seven_eight hours from now it can be standing on the global page if
> there is consensus about it?
>
> greetings, guidoke
>
>
>
>
>> [es]
>>
>> saludos a todos. creemos que hay una propuesta clara,
>>
>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/ con videos de las exigencias
>> de los movimientos sociales para la profunidazion del proceso 
>> bolivariano.
>>
>> enfoquemosnos en aclarar los procesos, dar mas participacion a cmis
>> latinos y no permitamos imposiciones de grupos especificos.
>>
>> [en]
>>
>> hi all. we believe that already exists a concrete proposal with videos
>> about what social movements are demanding of the bolivarian process.
>>
>> lets focus and stop arguing stupidities, we have to clear the process,
>> decentralize it and not allow impossitions of certain groups.
>>
>> salud
>>
>> rao pr
>>
>>> [es]
>>>
>>> Ya estamos de acuerdo en que lo centralizado del proceso hay que
>>> cambiarlo. Debemos reunirnos en irc. Ahora por favor, permitan, en vez
>>> de
>>> continuar discutiendo lo que ya estamos de acuerdo, subir las noticias
>>> que
>>> nos llegan desde Venezuela, no de ningún otro lugar.
>>>
>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>
>>> La justicia tardía no es justicia.
>>>
>>> GerenaPR
>>>
>>> [en]
>>>
>>> We alrdeady know and agree about this centralized process and that have
>>> to
>>> be changed. We should program a meeting in IRC. Now, please, decide,
>>> instead of talking of what is already known, to put up the news that we
>>> have directly from venezuela not other place.
>>>
>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>
>>> Late justice is not justice.
>>>
>>> GerenaPR
>>>
>>>
>>>> [es]
>>>> i totally agree we need more ppl with acess to the admin...
>>>> specially cuz we already have the texaco AND the referendum features 
>>>> up
>>>> without consensus... i agree with the others here, we should hold a
>>>> meeting on irc and decide about process AND about login to the admin
>>>> page
>>>> ciao
>>>> toya
>>>> [portunhol]
>>>> yo concuerdo plenamente hay que tener mas gente con accesso a la
>>>> admin...
>>>> especialmente porque nosotros ya tenemos el editorial de texaco Y el
>>>> editorial del referendo subidos a global sin consensos...yo concordo
>>>> con
>>>> otra gente de aca, hay q hacer una reunion en el irc y decidir sobre 
>>>> un
>>>> processo Y sobre accesso a la admin
>>>> ciao
>>>> toya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [es]
>>>>>
>>>>> Hay que aclarar los procesos ciertamente y da racceso a admin a
>>>>> representantes de colectivos CMI, esto es muy centrlizado y no es
>>>>> aceptable. Ya subió a global el editorial sin consenso de texaco y
>>>>> venezuela. Estamos esperando que por favor hagan consenso y suban
>>>>> cuanto
>>>>> antes las noticias y videos que nos llegan de las asambleas populares
>>>>> en
>>>>> Venezuela.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>
>>>>> Solidaridad.
>>>>>
>>>>> [en]
>>>>>
>>>>> We have to clear this process and give equal access to members of
>>>>> different IMC, this is too centralized and that is inacceptable. The
>>>>> texaco editorial went up without consensus and lies. We are waiting
>>>>> now
>>>>> to
>>>>> clear the feature with video of what the social movements are asking
>>>>> of
>>>>> the process , still waiting.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pr.indymedia.org/features/venezuela/
>>>>>
>>>>> Solidaridad.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerenapr
>>>>>
>>>>>> hi bb,
>>>>>> hold on a sec...first of all, my complain in here is how the process
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> are having in this list is mess up.... i know you worked on the
>>>>>> referendum
>>>>>> features modifying it to try to reach a consensus..it is an
>>>>>> apreciated
>>>>>> act
>>>>>> of yours but even so that wanst a consensus on it...sorry bout that
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> cant really tell you that after it was mofidying everyone said ok is
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> to go  now ..cuz some ppl were still having issues about that...
>>>>>> also, i am not intresting in asking ppl to leave cuz they put up a
>>>>>> features without consensus..or anything like that... i am intresting
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> build here a good process for us to decided on our features so this
>>>>>> kind
>>>>>> of thing doesnt happen again... i believe everyone who is in here 
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same intention, so why not try to create a good way to work
>>>>>> together???
>>>>>> what i am critizing in here is that for one situation we had one way
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> dealing with it and for other we have a diferent way....
>>>>>> and we are talking here about two really simulars situations...
>>>>>> anda gain, i would like to know how is the texaco features ofending
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> social moviments in venezuela??
>>>>>> ciao
>>>>>> toya
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yes, I see here a contradiction process ... we just had the
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> situation..a debate about a features with strong positions..and 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> situation the features went up without consensus ..... but now,
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> are facing a simular one the solution is to not put it up cuz we
>>>>>>>> dont
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a consensus...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Toya, I have a really hard time engaging with you on this, because
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> (and pretty much everyone else on this list) have refused to engage
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>> spent hours going through the archives and compiling a summary of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> entire sequence of events that led to the posting of the first
>>>>>>> feature,
>>>>>>> and only one person in the collective gave any response.  and now
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> bring this up again as though i had never written anything!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what do you mean?  the second feature did go up!  the one
>>>>>>> venezuelan
>>>>>>> on the list WANTED the information about Microsoft/Chevron to go 
>>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> just wanted it to be done in a way that at the same time did not
>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>> social movements, which is what the first proposal basically did.
>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> opinion this conflict was resolved beautifully well, though it was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the last week or so I have really wanted to quit this 
>>>>>>> collective,
>>>>>>> because this notion that I violated consensus on the first proposal
>>>>>>> continues to be mentioned, but not really discussed.  Any time I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> tried to open a discussion about it I have been totally ignored, in
>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>> private and public emails.  To me the accusation is VERY serious.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is true I should be held accountable in some way, even asked to
>>>>>>> leave.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> it is not true, then it is very serious that people are making a
>>>>>>> false
>>>>>>> accusation.  So which is it?  I personally am extremely upset that
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> people on this list continue ahead pretending there is no problem,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> maybe in that sense Toya, we are in agreement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is only my commitment to reporting events such as the recent
>>>>>>> massacre
>>>>>>> in Guatemala that keeps me from leaving this list.  I try to
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> that, no matter how frustrated I may become, my frustration is
>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> comparison with the struggles against injustice that are taking
>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> over the world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> solid., bb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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